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gc





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
The fact that there are moderate Muslims does not mean that the religion that they follow isn't violent and oppressive to women and minorities (not to mention anyone who doesn't subscribe to it wholeheartedly). Moderate Muslims are decent people - Islam on the other hand...

Radical Islam is violent and oppressive to women, moderate Islam is not. I think there is an important distinction that needs to be made between the two. It's okay to hate radical Islam, but not to hate moderate Islam. Can we at least agree on that?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I asked before, have you ever even considered the possibility that you are mixing up who is radical (minority views) and who is moderate (majority views) when you are talking about the Muslim faith? Insisting that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and much like us would be a serious mistake if the assumption turned out to be wrong.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
If the Pope called for the death of Jews can you imagine the outrage that would come from the left (not to mention the entire world). Muslim leaders do it DAILY and the left comes to their defense (and even invites them to speak at their Liberal Arts colleges). Blows my mind.


Very succinct contrast there - it couldn't be more apt... :!:
don muntean





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Craig wrote:
The fact that there are moderate Muslims does not mean that the religion that they follow isn't violent and oppressive to women and minorities (not to mention anyone who doesn't subscribe to it wholeheartedly). Moderate Muslims are decent people - Islam on the other hand...

Radical Islam is violent and oppressive to women, moderate Islam is not. I think there is an important distinction that needs to be made between the two. It's okay to hate radical Islam, but not to hate moderate Islam. Can we at least agree on that?



Where is the collective cohesion for these moderates? Moderates are limited to individuals.

It's not difficult to see the many groups that are radical - it's not difficult to see that radicals are highly organized. It is not difficult to see that the radicals are not being out-matched by the moderates in the propaganda business.

It would seem that the radical views are more likely to be found in a broad spectrum of their community leaders - who too often - agree with the radicals in their prejudices - while not in their revolution - of course - on some level the line of distinction is blurred when the noted prejudices - are not defeated in the noted community leaders.

Most muslim communities cultivate fear of outsiders - in Europe for example muslim youth born in Europe - avoid integration with westerners.

When I was a hare krishna I experienced xenophobia - as in that faith anyone not devoted to God [and in that tradition] was considered to be a demoniac person. The study of other religious and thought- systems is very much discouraged. Of course I never embraced that dysfunctional concept as I maintained associations outside the group - even when it conflicted with those 'devotees' that I associated with over the years. I also read what I wanted and I didn't care what anyone thought when I mentioned points from divergent traditions and teachings.

In today's world all religious communities suffer from a certain amount of xenophobia but - not all cultivate it in their members...and - of those religious groups that do cultivate that in their members - it seems that only Islamic groups end up with programs - to kill the 'outsiders'...
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Motti Wolf, a youngster who has left the Netherlands and studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, tells how at the Amsterdam South train station a group of Dutch Moroccans followed him while shouting "Jews to the gas." He mentions that one always had to be alert when wearing a kippa in certain parts of Amsterdam.[16] Wolf also notes that when he was a student at the Jewish high school, he preferred not to visit certain areas where many Muslims live. If he had to go there, he put on a cap instead of a kippa.

http://gayandright.blogspot.co.....ty-in.html
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
As I asked before, have you ever even considered the possibility that you are mixing up who is radical (minority views) and who is moderate (majority views) when you are talking about the Muslim faith? Insisting that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and much like us would be a serious mistake if the assumption turned out to be wrong.

I'm just speaking from personal experience. I know quite a few Muslims, and they are all moderates. In fact, they are among some of the nicest people I know.
Craig
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
As I asked before, have you ever even considered the possibility that you are mixing up who is radical (minority views) and who is moderate (majority views) when you are talking about the Muslim faith? Insisting that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving and much like us would be a serious mistake if the assumption turned out to be wrong.

I'm just speaking from personal experience. I know quite a few Muslims, and they are all moderates. In fact, they are among some of the nicest people I know.


I've known a few. I worked with one who said he was taking his family back to Pakistan the moment his children started to become too western. I worked with another one who said America got what it was asking for on 9/11. And I played squash with another one who was really nice but absolutely discounted the idea of me putting a CPC lawn sign on his lawn during the last election (wonder why).

BTW: As I've mentioned many times before - most Germans in the 1930's were very nice people. It takes one very charismatic and strong leader to create a mob mentality and turn a very pleasant group into a dangerous one.
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