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Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 857
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votes: 10
Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Making Inroads with Native Voters? Reply with quote

Well the throne speech contained 2 really key things on the Aboriginal Agenda:

-> Official Apology from the Nation for the Residential School Incident
-> Repealing section __ (help please), of the Human Rights Act that (thinking back here) does not guarantee human rights to Natives.
-> Speeding up the land claim disputes

The 2 Natives I saw on with Mike Duffy seemed happy with these mentions in the throne speech, including Phil Fontaine.

Could we see the native population moving away from the Liberal ranks to the Conservative ranks?

I am mixed...although this scores some points for the CPC and aboriginal voters, from every time I listen to the news and native advocates they want more and more and more and more community programs for aboriginal youth and people on reserves.

I don't support more social programs, but I certainly support an apology, repealing that section, and speeding up land disputes.

Thoughts?
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have to repeal the Indian act or whatever it is called. Free them from Canadian apartheid, give them property and rights like the rest of us. They won't like it for the first generation or two, but in the long run it is the right thing to do.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are all good incremental steps forward on dealing with Aboriginal issues. I am very suprised to hear support from the above mentioned leaders. Much as I loathe to admit, that kind of thing will be vital.

On the other hand, I suspect that the reference to guaranteeing human rights to Aboriginals will be about guaranteeing them individual property rights. That initiative will be fought tooth and nail by the benefactors of the status quo.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The human rights proposal deals with the fact that First Nations are exempt from the Human Rights act. Because of this band councils can legally discriminate against natives, and natives have nothing that they can do.

For example some band councils discriminate against women when it comes to property entitlements. If this was any ordinary Canadian they'd take them to court or to a human rights tribunal, however, there is a section in the human rights act that explicitly says that natives are exempt from rights protection.

If I'm not mistaken the speech also mentioned something about clean water.

Although these are good steps, I doubt if it will swing many votes our way, mostly because natives have very low voting rates. However, it may improve our perception among people who haven't voted CPC in the past.
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If money is to be spent on social programs, that is exactly where I want it spent. Our native population really needs a hand UP.

I'll admit that growing up as a kid, that I had alot of prejudice againt natives because my family is a hunting family (we didn't like the fact that natives could basically hunt whenever they wanted). And there is a reserve about 45min from my hometown. Driving through it, (being a naive kid) I was just disgusted with the way they treat their property (trash all over the place, homes falling apart).

Now as an INFORMED adult, I see that it isn't all their fault...It's truly is a cycle stemming from alcoholism and poverty. The kids grow up with alcoholic parents oftentimes, in poor living conditions with little supervision, skip school, get into crime etc.

What do they grow up to be like? Just like their parents.

If money is to be spent on social programs, I'd focus on these CHILDREN. Get them out of the cycle, make sure they are in school, get them off the reserves and give them a chance to go to university to do something with their lives. Once and for all, break that cycle.

I consider myself both socially and fiscally conservative but in this one case, with the oldest population of Canadians, I have to say that I don't mind my tax dollars going to that cause.

I'm even more proud to be a conservative today.
centrifugal





Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 100
Reputation: 100.5

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a mixed opinion about the natives. On one hand I am still very frustrated with them, they have more than equal opportunity in this country. If they made well educated decisions and invested properly they would be better off than most of us. On the other hand the cycle does need to be broken and the children should not be left to suffer because of the actions of previous generations.
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7434
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I draw a parallel between our strategy in Africa and our strategy with our own native people.

We keep writing cheques to address our social guilt but take little interest in seeing how that money is being spent or if it even benefits the people at large.

The problems in Native Communities is not getting better, the culture is vanishing.
I have a Polly Sci professor go as far as to say that the Federal Governments strategy with its natives is to wait till they are "bred out" of being.

If that the plan, its working.

The reality is that we need to help the natives develop skills and their own economy rather then forcing them to drink from the tit of the Federal Government.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TorontoCon wrote:
If money is to be spent on social programs, that is exactly where I want it spent. Our native population really needs a hand UP.
Canada has been giving them a hand up for what, 200 years now? In all that time, none of the handouts, programs, studies, or anything else have helped. Why would you want to continue doing what our entire history tells us has so far failed to work?
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KW. The government has not been giving our natives a hand UP for the past 200 years at all actually. They are giving hand OUTS (that's the LIBERAL way...)

Conservatives are all about responsible, well thought out, targeted spending that creates results. Not just spinning the wheel of welfare.... With the development of the north for example, FREE training to northern natives should be a focus. Get the kids to work and make a living as miners, work the pipelines, forestry or whatever else you can think of. Just get them off the reserves and out of the cycle.

Like I said, the key to this is do break the cycle by concentrating on the native youth, get them educated and OFF THE RESERVES in order to integrate once and for all, and make a life for THEMSELVES. They can be proud of their heritage and all that great stuff but times are changing and they need to adjust with the times.

That won't happen with an irresponsible "hand out" Liberal approach. Only a targeted, productive "hand UP" Conservative approach.

Maybe concentrate on one province at a time. The problem will not go away on it's own and these people cannot be ignored into non-existence.

They are more Canadian than any new immigrant that our governments pander to......
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best way to get them OFF THE RESERVES would be to scrap the reservation system all together, but we all know that's not going to happen. I agree that hand-downs have been a failure. However, just plain cutting all funding immediately isn't remotely possible.

As such,the biggest problem with encouraging 'emmigration' from Reservations is that it will perpetuate the problems ... all the skilled / motivated / ethical people move away, leaving the reservations and their increasing populations trapped in poverty and a political culture of corruption and laziness.

There's no easy solutions to this. It will take money, but money spent wisely and not just given freely. I've got some ideas, maybe I'll post them later...
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The days of an unaccountable Department of Indian and Northern Affairs need to end immediately. Let's turn Sheila Frazer and her pack of hounds loose on them.

-Mac
centrifugal





Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 100
Reputation: 100.5

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember the roadblocks in the early summer? I was traveling into quebec that day, I had to take a 3 hour detour around a stretch of road that should have taken 20 minutes. All the traffic being moved back onto small back roads creating alot of congestion. I want a leader who will not be afraid to take action against people like this, the natives should have been arrested immidiately.

Yes they have been receiving handouts for 200 years, which is why they have no right to complain. If they are going to be irresponsible with the handouts they have been given they should not expect the government to come in and rescue them.
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Making Inroads with Native Voters?

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