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TorontoCon





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Tax cuts: Another Dion problem.. Reply with quote

I also think that significant tax cuts will be announced. Another conundrum for Dion. Vote down a significant tax cut??? How do you campaign on that one?

That won't bode well with soft Liberal voters...

This also has connections to the Kyoto thread here..

Choice 1: Vote down the speech
You "save face" on Kyoto but VOTE DOWN SIGNIFICANT TAX CUTS. Then you have to run a poorly funded campaign with a divided party... OUCH

Choice 2: Vote FOR the speech.
You are then humiliated for backing down on Kyoto and half your Liberal core voters vote for the NDP next election... OUCH

Either way, the Conservatives win, possibly reaching that ever-elusive 40% mark.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be great if the PM drew a line in the sand, and just said, all those for smaller more responsible less intrusive government on this side.

Taxes are all about the power though. Tax cut equals power cut; less power to rob Peter to pay Paul, less power to tell people what to do, less power invade every room in the house, save the bedroom.

Anyone reflected on Trudeau's famous line lately? Anyone notice how increasingly the government is telling us what we can and cannot eat, what is and is not appropriate recreation, what is and is not an acceptable way to light your living room? If the bedrooms of the nation are no place for the government, why are the kitchens, hallways, and linen closets?
gc





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Dion wants more tax cuts than Harper (Link)

Dion should vote for the throne speech, but vote against any specific bills that he strongly disagrees with and that the Liberals are prepared to campaign on.
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Apparently Dion wants more tax cuts than Harper (Link)

Dion should vote for the throne speech, but vote against any specific bills that he strongly disagrees with and that the Liberals are prepared to campaign on.


Harper has made it clear that any legislation that was part of the throne speech will be considered a matter of confidence.
luca





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This tax cut thing by Dion sounds hollow. Did he lay out any plans to balance the books after such a massive stroke? Who will be the robbed Paul that will pay for the businesses? Or will Dion really reduce the State's structure and expenditure proportionately (doesn't sound Liberal to me)? Or will he just take out a big mortgage on Canada to be paid off by the future governments (typical Liberal tactic)?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He would not have to balance the books. Many leading economists believe that we are above the optimal level of taxation. If you are not familiar with the Laffer curve, the idea is that for any given revenue target, there are two levels of taxation that will yield that rate of revenue; one low and one high.

As as example, the two rates that will yield $0 are 0% and 100%. At 0%, you are not asking for money, and at 100%, no one is willing to pay taxes.

What I am saying is that a tax cut will yield increased tax revenue. Draw a graph, the vertical axis is revenue, the horizontal axis is tax rate. Draw a bell; our tax rate puts us on the downward curve on the one side, we need to back it up so we are closer to the maximum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
gc





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Harper has made it clear that any legislation that was part of the throne speech will be considered a matter of confidence.


And?
luca





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that wiki link, never heard of the Laffer curve.

If the tax cut regarded income tax and the money went into consumption and investment (i.e. shares) rather than saving it would be beneficial. However, with corporate tax I can see the Laffer curve applying only if the additional money is invested into expanding the company and creating more jobs, with more taxable income and more consequent taxable consumption, or if it is given to shareholders. What if these funds are routed into things that do not generate an increase of disposable income? And even if consumption does increase, unless we have a good case of the multiplier effect, the Gov't might find it difficult to recoup the costs it incurred by cutting the tax first. Does Canada have a budget surplus at present?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last fiscal year, the budget surplus was close to $14 billion. It was all used to pay down the debt.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Ca.....29-cp.html
Quote:
Flaherty said taxes are still too high, and the federal government is committed to lowering them further. "We've already committed to reducing personal income taxes and reducing corporate taxes more," he said after announcing $15 million in federal funding for a centre of excellence at St. Michael's hospital in Toronto.


I have to note the irony of announcing that there will be future tax cuts at a spending announcement.
Grind a Grit





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is so late in the game now to stop the hemoraging of the good paying manufacturing job sector, that massive tax cuts are in order; to the point that balancing the books might be futile for half a decade or more before the reverse effect of economic stimulation starts replentishing the government coffers again.....Now try to make this understandable (Can't count on MSM) to your average smock out there who still has the Liberal recording: "We balanced the books/stopped the deficits" mindset: IMPOSSIBLE...If Harper was to create deficits it would be game over at the next election.

Sometimes you have to invest money, to make money.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what are the odds on me hearing the words Income and Splitting in tonights speech?
Ruth





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
So what are the odds on me hearing the words Income and Splitting in tonights speech?


I hope so.
It would be awesome!

-Ruth
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Tax cuts: Another Dion problem..

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