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As a Christian, I believe:
The Bible/Christianity/Jesus/Word of God does not support capital punishment
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
The Bible/Christianity/Jesus/Word of God DOES support capital punishment
57%
 57%  [ 4 ]
Other
28%
 28%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 7

Author Message
Ruth





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Romans 13: 1-4
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.


As far as I am concerned, the death penalty is Biblical

-Ruth
don muntean





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruth wrote:
Quote:
Romans 13: 1-4
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.


As far as I am concerned, the death penalty is Biblical

-Ruth


Paul is seemingly making some rather short-sighted judgments in these comments.

What of leaders in places like Iran? What about the nazis? What about the Taliban and other existing islamist theocratic states? What about the communist leaders?

While all rulers may be 'sanctioned by God' - due to collective reactions - to say "The authorities that exist have been established by God" - is a dangerous idea - if not understood properly.

Paul says "For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you."

That isn't so - there are near countless examples [even in modern history] of innocents being harassed and abused by cold ruthless autocratic rulers.

Paul's comments are not general observations rather - they are specific 'time and circumstances' instructions.

All rulers are not agents of providential justice! Is he talking of the demonic Romans? Who? Is it a general comment about all rulers?

Are the good people captive in the fists of dictators supposed to yield to such authorities? Are they to see their abuses as judgments from God and not fight for freedom and justice?

Why does Paul say this? I suspect that it was to suppress the early church from struggling with their rulers in the 'heathen' nations where they found themselves. The early church was persecuted by the heathen nations and Paul was trying to save the church from an extermination course.

Actually there are many things stated by Paul that must be understood correctly and in full context - these comments are one example.

On the issue of capital punishment read my comments on this thread:

http://www.bloggingtories.ca/f.....96-15.html


Last edited by don muntean on Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Riley W





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Jesus is the complete and utter authority of the Bible... if we get away from the Old Testament, did Jesus ever say the death penalty was acceptable?

I am not sure, but I don't think Jesus supported it.

After all our savior's life was ended by capital punishment...
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
I believe Jesus is the complete and utter authority of the Bible... if we get away from the Old Testament, did Jesus ever say the death penalty was acceptable?

I am not sure, but I don't think Jesus supported it.

After all our savior's life was ended by capital punishment...


Yeah, but of the other 3 guys dying with him, only one was repentant. He only told one of them that they would see paradise. Was it 3 other guys with him?

Luke 23
Quote:
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
don muntean





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
westmanguy wrote:
I believe Jesus is the complete and utter authority of the Bible... if we get away from the Old Testament, did Jesus ever say the death penalty was acceptable?

I am not sure, but I don't think Jesus supported it.

After all our savior's life was ended by capital punishment...


Yeah, but of the other 3 guys dying with him, only one was repentant. He only told one of them that they would see paradise. Was it 3 other guys with him?

Luke 23
Quote:
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."


Good contextual contrast...
Ruth





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
Ruth wrote:
Quote:
Romans 13: 1-4
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.


As far as I am concerned, the death penalty is Biblical

-Ruth


Paul is seemingly making some rather short-sighted judgments in these comments.

What of leaders in places like Iran? What about the nazis? What about the Taliban and other existing islamist theocratic states? What about the communist leaders?
...
All rulers are not agents of providential justice! Is he talking of the demonic Romans? Who? Is it a general comment about all rulers?


Well, Paul was writing to the Romans wasn't he? And he was telling them to submit to their authorities which would have been the Roman government wouldn't it?

westmanguy:
Quote:
did Jesus ever say the death penalty was acceptable?
I am not sure, but I don't think Jesus supported it.
After all our savior's life was ended by capital punishment...

Jesus did not say it was wrong.
He did, however, tell Pilate he would have no authority if it had not been given him.
Your last statement shows a lack of understanding. Jesus had to die. How else would we have been saved?

-Ruth
Riley W





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes but if Jesus didn't say joy riding with your own car was a sin either....but we don't.

Absence doesn't mean "yes".
Ruth





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It also doesn't mean no... especially when there are no verses to suggest capital punishment is wrong.

-Ruth
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Christianity and Capital Punishment

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