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theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triple_R wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
Regarding the atheist meaning of life.


There is no meaning of life if you're an atheist.

Quote:
I just found this recent post by another atheist:

Friday, September 21, 2007
Why do atheists always present the cold hard facts?


You don't present cold hard facts. You make naturalistic assumptions all the time.

Quote:


Instead of talking about their feelings once in a while? I've been asked this question by an acquaintance. This person has tried to read "The God Delusion" and "The End of Faith".


I would recommend that you read "The Twilight of Atheism".

Quote:
I guess I can see why she thinks that atheists always present cold hard facts, and why this might seem depressing to some. The fact is though that this is what people want to hear. Cold hard facts of why we are atheists and not theists. Christians would be just as disappointed that we're atheist because it just feels right, as we are disappointed to hear why Christians choose to believe in their God.

Yes, at the point in my life where I am now, atheism feels right.


So, are you open to ever believing in God?

Quote:
I've done the research, weighed the cold and hard facts, went through some troubling times of fearing death and what is going to happen in a million years or so, and then arrived at atheism.


And what makes you think that Christians haven't done the same, and have simply felt that the evidence in favour of God's existence is stronger than you think it is?

Quote:
I'm through with the weighing, the searching, the suffering... now it's time to feel good about where I am.


Where you are is wrong.

Quote:
That is not to say that I'm not open for new and exiting facts and findings. But yes, like any "true" Christian (and they all say they are true Christians) I am at peace with my life and with my world. The fact that I have this one life to live (no more and no less) makes me want to do it better, live more intensely,


Apparently, living it intensely means being an anti-Christian/anti-religion bigot all the time.

Quote:
... do more good, enjoy my children more, strive for my goals with a little more motivation.


Apparently, your goals are over such grand, meaningful issues as the ceremonial aspects of political gatherings.

Quote:
No, it doesn't depress me to think that after this life it's all over, because I'll know that I did everything I could to live my life to the fullest.


Wow. What arrogance. Your every post just oozes with arrogance, and closed-mindedness.

So, you're basically saying that when your natural life is over, you'll know that you've never made a signale mistake in your life?

Quote:
I feel relief not to have to live up to some invented deity's standards.


I feel relief in knowing that there are universal standards of right and wrong that come from God, and which add meaning, and structure, to existence.

Quote:
I don't have to do well because of the promise of heaven or the threat of hell.


Christians don't believe that Heaven is gained through works. Christians believe that doing good is a reward in and of itself.

Quote:
I have the freedom to be the best I can be just because I want to. How liberating, how grand!


I have the freedom to be the best I can be because I know that there is a reason to want to be the best I can be - a reason linked to my creation, a reason linked to God.

Quote:


No, it's not all about cold and hard facts with atheists. As a matter of fact some of the most spiritual people I know are atheists.


You can't be spiritual if you don't believe in a human spirit which transcends the physical realm.
A spiritual atheist is an oxymoron.

Quote:
They inspire me with their ability to live and enjoy, to just soak it all up.


There's nothing inspirational about an existence that is entirely temporary, and not rooted in anything permanent or lasting.

Quote:


I went for a walk today. I live near a street that has trees growing on both sides... the leaves were yellow and red, the air was clear, the sun was shining... and I sent a silent thank you to the world.


LOL

There's nothing that I find funnier than an atheist who personifies the world or the universe. ;)

Your soul is trying to tell you something when you do that, but because your closed mind refuses to accept it, you end up personifing the world/universe instead of giving thanks to He who you owe your entire existence to, and hence thanks for such special moments in life.

Quote:
There is nothing quite as beautiful as a sunny day in early fall. Hope you all enjoy it as much as I do.
http://atheisthomeschool.blogspot.com/


Wow... do you put "atheist" in everything related to you? Is your person completely defined by atheism?

Pay attention. That wasn't me, I just pasted someone else's blog post.
Triple_R





Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 111
Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2
votes: 2

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:

I can't prove that God doesn't exist. But I do know there is as much evidence God exists as there is that there is an invisible man who lives under my bed.


Wrong, for reasons I've already outlined. Your analogy is pathetic for those reasons as well.

Quote:


We are a secular nation in principle but we are not there YET. Are you saying we aren't a secular nation?


We're a pluralistic nation, with secular policy.

I have no problem with that at all.

It's how petty and small-minded secular fundamentalists are over mere governmental ceremony that sends off alarm bells to me.

When you folks can't tolerate even that much, it tells me that you're athoritarian anti-religion bigots, and that you would do everything in your power to make life decidedly uncomfortable for people of religious beliefs to live in your ideal country.

People like you are just as big a threat to the lives of religious people as someone like Jerry Falwell is to the lives of non-religious people.

Quote:

There is no hatred on my part.


There is plenty of hatred on your part. Hating people who believe in God to the extent that you would go out of your way to stop them from saying the Lord's Prayer at Town Hall meetings is evidence of that.

Quote:
No matter how you want to spin it.


You're engaging in more spin than I am.

Quote:
And by the way, just to fill you in, probably the most secular nation out there now is Sweden. They have between 50-75% atheist/agnostics in that country.


I'd like to see a poll to that affect from a neutral source. So in other words... link please?

Quote:
In a few generations Canada will have a similar makeup.


Given that the followers of Islam is procreating at a far greater rate than Christians, or atheists, or any other group... I'm almost positive that you're wrong.

I suggest you read Mark Steyn's "America Alone" to get a picture of where the world is REALLY heading.

I probably don't like it any more than you do, but it's demographic truth, and not mere conjecture.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triple_R wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

Well then we disagree tremendously. And the law is phasing out biblical rantings in the public sector for reasons I've cited.


No, it's not. We still have freedom of expression in this country, do we not?

By the way, do you oppose freedom of expression, AJ?

Quote:
Language is fact. Religious belief is the total opposite.


No, it's not the total opposite. Not always, anyway. You make all these bold proclimations and don't offer the slightest bit of evidence for them - then you demand evidence from those of us who believe in God?

Then you have the unmitigated gall to call me a hypocrite?! :shock: :lol:

Language shapes the world around us in a comprehensive way just as religious and/or secular beliefs do. Language, and religious/secular beliefs, both are integral aspects of our culture, and there's nothing wrong with any government respecting the culture of the people that it is governing.

Quote:
Predominant religion? Catholicism? Baptists? Even they can't agree on the words of the Lords Prayer.


Apparently, they'd rather have a version of the Lord's Prayer than none at all.

Christianity, in one denomination or another, is the predominant belief of Canadians.

Quote:
I'm respectful that everyone has the right to believe whatever they want. They just have no place in the public sector.


Sure they do, in a ceremonial fashion, if they are reflective of the predominant culture of the land. This is how every society that has ever existed has done things.

Quote:
There is nothing based on fact, only faith based.


There is plenty based on fact. There are numerous books that I could recommend to you if you're genuinely interested, and not the closed-minded soul that I think that you are.

Quote:
If I said an invisible man lives under my bed, are you supposed to accept it?


Your thinking on this issue is terribly flawed. The notion that our universe, due it's incredible elements of design and detail, has by extension a Creator, is not akin to believing in invisible men living in bizarre places.

It is perfectly respectful concept of why our universe, and we, exist.

Quote:
Is it up to me to prove the existence of the man, or up to you to disprove it?


Your analogy is truly pathetic, as your invisible man does not offer a possible explanation to why our universe, and we, exist... whereas God does.

Quote:

And we see that there is tremendous randomness that occurs everywhere.


Actually, there is a great deal of non-random patterns and rules of physics that govern our universe.

Quote:
There is no evidence that any being created the universe.


There is plenty of evidence that our universe has a Creator.

Quote:

You support it based on faith.


I support it based on my analysis of arguments both for, and against, the theory that our universe has an Intelligent Creator.

I have faith in my particular religion, but my belief in a Creator arises largely from the analysis that I mentioned to you.

Not everbody approaches these questions with the naturalistic binders that you have on yourself, sir.

Quote:
Who created the creator?


The Creator is a Constant. There has to be a constant - either chance is a constant, or the Creator is a constant.

There has to be a first cause which transcends all others. I believe that cause is God. You believe that it's chance, or luck.

Quote:

I've explained that. The vast majority of humans thought the earth was flat at one time, and that the earth was the center of the universe and the sun revolved around the earth. The majority's faith doesn't matter when it comes to evidence.


I haven't seen you present any evidence whatsoever that chance is the first cause.

Fact of the matter is, sir, that you're taking at least as much on faith as I am. You're simply putting your faith in chance, and luck.

Quote:

Actually it is not sad.


It is very sad, and it is very depressing.

Quote:
It is sad to me that you have to try to make something out of nothing in an attempt to give your life meaning. I would rather be realistic than be the equivalent of a drug addict who can't face reality.


You aren't facing reality. Reality is rooted in God.

Quote:
BTW, what it the meaning of life if God exists?


If God exists, then we exist and continue to exist because God wanted us to exist, and as such the tapestry of human existence is rooted in the desire, and will, of a Being that is more marvelous than our wildest imaginations.

Our existence is rooted in a gorgeous act of creation, and we are all like the finest of paintings, only with souls and spirits that contain hopes and dreams and aspirations and loves that help to define who we are.

Within the context of a permanent existence, these hopes and dreams and aspirations and loves metastasize into eternal memories of meaning, and purpose, that will guide us through eternity.

Quote:

I do have the right to be offended.


That's basically what I said.

Quote:
And you'll see that the Lords Prayer will not be said in Town Halls anymore very soon. The intelligence of the law will win out.


There's nothing intelligent about your secular fundamentalism, sir. You're just as much a 'fundy' as any Christian fundamentalist is - you simply have a different 'faith' that you're a fundamentalist of.

What a silly man you've chosen to be - you intensely focus on ceremonial aspects of political gatherings, and harp on them constantly.

Quote:

Says the wilfully ignorant hypocrite.


I'm not wilfully ignorant, and I'm no more of a hypocrite than you are. There's nothing hypocritical about appropriately arguing that numbers should count for something.

I just started a Separation of Church and State topic here. I will respond there.
Ruth





Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 243
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votes: 7

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
I'm expecting a strong voting turn out and a Liberal majority.

Don't bet on it.
I think a lot of people are disillusioned with the Liberals.
Unfortunately, the PC's don't seem to be faring much better... and for reasons OTHER than faith based funding.

Quote:
Baptists. We joke all the time. They are an older retired couple.

And a nice, sensible denomination too. Would you happen to know if they lean more to an Arminian or Calvinist bent?

--Ruth
Triple_R





Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 111
Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2Reputation: 6.2
votes: 2

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:

I just started a Separation of Church and State topic here. I will respond there.


Fine, but I'm finished debating you on this. At least for now.

My stand on church and state is clear, and I'm quite comfortable and happy with it.

Actual political policy should not be rooted in religious beliefs, but the inclusion of such religious beliefs in ceremonial aspects of political gatherings are harmless if they reflect the beliefs of the majority, and are arguably beneficial, at least at times.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruth wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
I'm expecting a strong voting turn out and a Liberal majority.

Don't bet on it.
I think a lot of people are disillusioned with the Liberals.
Unfortunately, the PC's don't seem to be faring much better... and for reasons OTHER than faith based funding.

Quote:
Baptists. We joke all the time. They are an older retired couple.

And a nice, sensible denomination too. Would you happen to know if they lean more to an Arminian or Calvinist bent?

--Ruth

I'm not sure what the diff is, but they don't buy evolution, the wife thinks the earth is young, but the hubby believes in different start ups and therefore believes that dinosaurs were here prior to man, and left bones so we could have oil (I guess so that his car would have gas when the Rapture comes).
Ruth





Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 243
Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5Reputation: 8.5
votes: 7

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
I'm not sure what the diff is, but they don't buy evolution, the wife thinks the earth is young, but the hubby believes in different start ups and therefore believes that dinosaurs were here prior to man, and left bones so we could have oil (I guess so that his car would have gas when the Rapture comes).

When I was asking, I was wondering if you would know the answer or not.
Go to the Coffee Room and read the free will vs election thread. That should give you an idea. We really only scratched the surface of all there is to discuss on that particular issue.

--Ruth
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Statistics on worldwide atheism by country:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html
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