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mrsocko





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But there is no evidence of God. That is a fact.


God exists are there is plenty of evidence. That is a fact. It is also truth. Your ignorance will not change that even if you insists on spouting it for 50 more posts on this stupid thread.

Ask God to perform a miracle in your life. Ask him to reveal himself to you. He will. Someone as arrogant as you doesn't have the guts to seek him. Billion's of people know God, but arrogant Mister atheist knows all.

It's your belief that there is no evidence God exists. It is a fact in your life. That is all it is.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
But there is no evidence of God. That is a fact.


God exists are there is plenty of evidence. That is a fact. It is also truth. Your ignorance will not change that even if you insists on spouting it for 50 more posts on this stupid thread.

Ask God to perform a miracle in your life. Ask him to reveal himself to you. He will. Someone as arrogant as you doesn't have the guts to seek him. Billion's of people know God, but arrogant Mister atheist knows all.

It's your belief that there is no evidence God exists. It is a fact in your life. That is all it is.

You can call me names and repeat that God exists and there is proof for 1000 posts. It still won't make God exist.

Who says I didn't try to find God at one point in my life. I did, and then I slowly concluded I was chasing something that didn't exist.

Guts? You make me laugh. Keep deluding yourself.
Ruth





Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko, God does not perform miracles just because an atheist demands it as proof of His existence. Consider what Jesus said to the Pharisees regarding their demand for a sign .
(Matthew 16:1-4)
urbanmonk, my blog is http://rootleweb.blogspot.com

BEAJ, you missed the point I was making.
The point is I can present you with evidence up the yinyang. The problem is, you will not accept what I consider evidence to actually BE evidence.
If I presented you with the universe as evidence of God, would you consider it acceptable as evidence? As far as I am concerned, everything about creation argues that there must be an Intelligent Designer somewhere.
If I presented you with the universal nature of human morality, would you consider it evidence? You say: Morality? You mean like the "God given" morality that chimps seem to have as well? Man got along without the bible for hundreds of thousands of years and must have behaved OK to get us here. I say that is not only evidence of the existence of God, but it is also evidence of the fact that we are created in His image.
What would you consider to be acceptable evidence? Even if I could provide it, would it change your view?

In any case, your argument that "man must have behaved ok to get us here" cannot stand up to historical scrutiny. Go buy yourself a copy of Herodotus' Histories as a start. I am reading it now. Interesting stuff. If anything is clear, it is that man has, for thousands of years, definitely not behaved "ok."

--Ruth
PS: You did say one right thing. Society in Canada isn't driven with God at the wheel. However, I would say that is a bad thing.
PS2: I have no idea what "heavy" research you did to convince you that Jesus was likely an invention of Paul. I am aware of no serious research that might support such a view. Who are you reading?
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let him feel superior now. Atheists always act like they are smarter because they "know better". I was once an atheist but I believe religion succeeds where science fails - or at least comes closer to succeeding. This universe is massive and it came to be somehow. The best science can do is say "a big bang". But science also says you can't have something from nothing - and that is where, in my humble and non-arrogant opinion, God comes in.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
The best science can do is say "a big bang".

Like I said... it takes more faith to be an atheist than to be a theist.

So BEAJ wants evidence? I would like evidence too. There are many things I'd like evidence about but I'll just mention a couple... things which we encounter every day and think nothing about... yet...

I would like some evidence of gravity, please. Yes, I know it's there... and I know it's effect can be measured... but what is it? Where did it come from? What is it's active mechanism? Why is it under my bed?

I would like some evidence of electricity, please. Yes, I know it's there... and I know it's effects can be measured... but what is it? We can create electricity and scientists have some theories about positive and negative electrons but they're really not sure how it does what it does...

Tell you what, BEAJ... You prove how gravity works and I'll prove how God works, okay? You go first. :lol:

-Mac

ps: I think BEAJ is having a great time and this is a subject near & dear to his heart so he's using John Tory's education platform as a springboard for this discussion.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Let him feel superior now. Atheists always act like they are smarter because they "know better". I was once an atheist but I believe religion succeeds where science fails - or at least comes closer to succeeding. This universe is massive and it came to be somehow. The best science can do is say "a big bang". But science also says you can't have something from nothing - and that is where, in my humble and non-arrogant opinion, God comes in.


As a 100% theist and Christian I need to clarify something.

The Big Bang isn't anti-religion/Christian or an atheist view point. In fact the Catholic church adopted it in the 50s.

I don't take the "days" part literally in Genesis. Because how do we know the units of time God uses?

I believe God started out everything through the Big Bang.

Just to clarify, its not anti-religion that theory.

I believe it.
urbanmonk





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:


ps: I think BEAJ is having a great time and this is a subject near & dear to his heart so he's using John Tory's education platform as a springboard for this discussion.


The atheist doth protest too much, methinks :~)
Ruth





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
I don't take the "days" part literally in Genesis. Because how do we know the units of time God uses?
I believe God started out everything through the Big Bang.


A question: Do you also believe that God created the world through the process of evolution as opposed to a literal 6 days? I am curious and want to know.

--Ruth
PS http://science.howstuffworks.com/question232.htm =>How gravity works... unless you want the actual mechanism itself. No one can prove that. Actually, there are a lot of common things that we can't prove how they work. We can only show that they do and theorize about the how.


Last edited by Ruth on Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
biggie





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neither side will ever disprove the other...

If the day comes where one side does, we will all be standing at the pearly gates ;)

Ah the beauty of theism vs. atheism; neither side knows with absolute certainty, neither likely ever will, yet both will sit there and try to argue "proof" of either.

Wake up! There is no proof of either, nor anything to disprove either.

Just let the other believe what they will... who's it harming??

Little too much meddling in extremely sensitive and personal areas if you ask me.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
Neither side will ever disprove the other...

If the day comes where one side does, we will all be standing at the pearly gates ;)

Ah the beauty of theism vs. atheism; neither side knows with absolute certainty, neither likely ever will, yet both will sit there and try to argue "proof" of either.

Wake up! There is no proof of either, nor anything to disprove either.

Just let the other believe what they will... who's it harming??

Little too much meddling in extremely sensitive and personal areas if you ask me.


In a nutshell I agree.

About the debate on theism vs. atheism being a waste of time...religion is supposed to be about faith. God gave us enough to go on with the deciples, the Bible, Jesus Christ coming to earth, but he didn't give absolute proof. Its about making the leap into faith.

But I do disagree "neither likely ever will,", at our death we will know.

I fear the pain of death, but not the fate of death. I know I have an eternity of peace after this lifetime.

Ok, evolution. I believe evolution could of been used for animals. But personally I believe man was made by the personal touch of God and we were created in His image.

Therefore evolution conflicts with that and I can believe it for anything but humans.

Although I don't think if you believe in evolution you can't be a theist.

Thats silly.

Even the Catholic church said you can accept evolution and still be a Christian.
Craig
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
Ah the beauty of theism vs. atheism; neither side knows with absolute certainty, neither likely ever will, yet both will sit there and try to argue "proof" of either.


Atheists don't bother me. But Christians sure seem to bother atheists. Perhaps we need separate countries so that we can live in a Christian country and atheists can live in their godless land.

BTW: Biggie, we don't claim there is proof. Faith doesn't require it.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
biggie wrote:
Ah the beauty of theism vs. atheism; neither side knows with absolute certainty, neither likely ever will, yet both will sit there and try to argue "proof" of either.


Atheists don't bother me. But Christians sure seem to bother atheists. Perhaps we need separate countries so that we can live in a Christian country and atheists can live in their godless land.

BTW: Biggie, we don't claim there is proof. Faith doesn't require it.


You know sometimes I think this would make for an easier world...

All us Christian Canadians could move to the USA, and all the atheists could move to Canada, and all non christians theists could have a other multicultural nation in the middle somewhere...

Would make life easier, thats for sure..
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
Craig wrote:
Let him feel superior now. Atheists always act like they are smarter because they "know better". I was once an atheist but I believe religion succeeds where science fails - or at least comes closer to succeeding. This universe is massive and it came to be somehow. The best science can do is say "a big bang". But science also says you can't have something from nothing - and that is where, in my humble and non-arrogant opinion, God comes in.


As a 100% theist and Christian I need to clarify something.

The Big Bang isn't anti-religion/Christian or an atheist view point. In fact the Catholic church adopted it in the 50s.

I don't take the "days" part literally in Genesis. Because how do we know the units of time God uses?

I believe God started out everything through the Big Bang.

Just to clarify, its not anti-religion that theory.

I believe it.


I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The point I was making was that science does not know. While we may not have proof at least we have an explanation, i.e. God caused the big bang.
Matt





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methinks this topic went well beyond the scope of John Tory's proposal several pages ago and should likely be closed in favour of a similar discussion outside of Canadian Politics. But that's just me.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
mrsocko, God does not perform miracles just because an atheist demands it as proof of His existence. Consider what Jesus said to the Pharisees regarding their demand for a sign .
(Matthew 16:1-4)


You asked him about this did you?

P.S. the Pharisees were not atheists. They where hypocrits


Last edited by mrsocko on Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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