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urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Did Harper really betray Manning? Reply with quote

Quote:
I have to say that I never did trust Harper after he betrayed Manning. -Ravon (quoted from another thread)


This is the first time I recall hearing this. I've always respected the Prime Minister.
Even when Stockwell was having a hard time Stephen was very careful not to undermine him.
Isn't it a little harsh to say that Stephen betrayed Preston? Thinking for yourself is not a bad thing, without Harpers approach to conservatism we'd probably be over halfway into yet another liberal majority government..
TealTories





Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Did Harper really betray Manning? Reply with quote

urbanmonk wrote:
Quote:
I have to say that I never did trust Harper after he betrayed Manning. -Ravon (quoted from another thread)


This is the first time I recall hearing this. I've always respected the Prime Minister.
Even when Stockwell was having a hard time Stephen was very careful not to undermine him.
Isn't it a little harsh to say that Stephen betrayed Preston? Thinking for yourself is not a bad thing, without Harpers approach to conservatism we'd probably be over halfway into yet another liberal majority government..


I dont know, if he did I dont think that there is any hard feelings.
I saw Preston on election night and he looked like a proud father.
I dont know maybe he is a good actor?
plantguy





Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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Location: Lower Economy, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has Preston ever commented on Mr. Harper's policies or administration. I'd be interested in hearing them.
Knave





Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 43
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Location: Calgary, Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Did Harper really betray Manning? Reply with quote

TealTories wrote:
I dont know, if he did I dont think that there is any hard feelings.
I saw Preston on election night and he looked like a proud father.
I dont know maybe he is a good actor?


Manning singles out Mr. Harper for criticism over their disagreement on the RPC's Charlottetown Accord strategy and his departure from the Reform Party caucus for the NCC in Think Big.

If memory serves, Preston alludes in the book to Harper having a bit of an autocratic streak in him, and not wanting to "consult the membership" in the populist tradition that Manning promoted.

Take that with a grain of salt.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Did Harper really betray Manning? Reply with quote

TealTories wrote:

I saw Preston on election night and he looked like a proud father.
I dont know maybe he is a good actor?


Yes that was also my impression.
I remember at the time thinking " I bet Preston is going to be the next US ambassador".
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue that Paul Martin's jockeying for power when there was no leadership convention and while Chretien was still the leader is more of a betrayal.

If you say that Harper betrayed his "roots" by turning his back on Reform Party's grassroots approach of leadership, perhaps you might have an arguement, but I still don't buy it. Manning was a populist who believed in the grassroots. Harper never was and never will be that kind of politician, but that does not equal a betrayal.

Manning is a class act and I would be very surprised if he called out Harper on any of the events in the past.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Manning is a class act and I would be very surprised if he called out Harper on any of the events in the past.


Manning has blasted Harper in the past for having loose lips(being the source of leaks) on internal party matters. When Manning was accussed of mishandling his clothing allowance Harper was very vocal.

Personally I think Manning is responsible for 13 years of Liberal majority. During this time the Libs did steal a lot of Reform policies(deficit reduction, Clarity Act) and moved to the right because of it. But Manning should have realized that he needed to partner with the PC's if he was going to effect major change in this country. Running a full slate of candidates was madness on both parties part.
Reform





Joined: 03 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing that happened as is explaned in Preston Manning's book Think Big Preston explains that had it not been for Reform was created as a third way for westerners to vent their anger against Mulroney and his croonyism. He also explains that the Canadian Alliance was supposed to be a party to be more accesible to PC's and CA's alike to join together

Manning, in my opinion, is the greatest Prime Mninster Canada never had, he would have changed everything that is wrong in Ottawa these days and he would have made Ottawa more accountble and accessible to the ordinary citizen. To the contrary of the slanderous Liberals and NDP's

And yes in Think Big Manning explains that Harper doesn't believe in the grassroots movement that early Reform was.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And yes in Think Big Manning explains that Harper doesn't believe in the grassroots movement that early Reform was.



Your right. Harper did not beleive in the Populism of Manning and so he left the Reform party. he was always a Conservative but did not beleive thatb the reform party in it's current make up could ever be the government. He was right.

But manning was the best Prime Minister Canada could never have. it was never gonna happen. It took the pragmatism of Harper to make it happen.
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Preston was good.

Too bad the Fiberals had to paint him as a religious fanatic.

I actually like Stockwell Day, I know he really bombed with that sea-doo incident but I thought he was good for the Can. Alliance.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Manning has blasted Harper in the past for having loose lips(being the source of leaks) on internal party matters. When Manning was accussed of mishandling his clothing allowance Harper was very vocal


Has Manning fired off against Haper since Harper been Prime Minister?

mrsocko wrote:
But Manning should have realized that he needed to partner with the PC's if he was going to effect major change in this country. Running a full slate of candidates was madness on both parties part.


I don't know where in Canada you lived during those years, but I think you fail to underestimate the resentment that the West had towards political power base of Ontario/Quebec during those years and how the feelings that the PCs had towards to the Manning and the Reform bordered on hatred. When sitting at the Young Reformers' table during club's day at my old university, I was sworn at by PCers just as much as by those from the loonie left. At least none of the PCers spat at us.

There was no way that the two parties were going to merge under Manning's watch. Manning probably/might have realized that becoming PM was out of reach, but there was no way the grassroots at that time was going to allow for any deal making with the PCs and Manning followed the grassroots. It had to happen with different people running the show and at a time when a lot the wounds had healed.

mrsocko wrote:
]But manning was the best Prime Minister Canada could never have. it was never gonna happen. It took the pragmatism of Harper to make it happen.


Very true.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Has Manning fired off against Haper since Harper been Prime Minister?


Didn't Manning publish a book after the election where he made observations about Harper. He wasn't nasty. I think he has a bit of the proud Papa in him now.

Wouldn't it be great if he ran for PC leadership in Alberta?

I wasn't party to the hatred between the Parties and voted Reform. I was also p*ss*d at Mulroney for squandering his chance to fight the deficet and for his pandering to Quebec.
plantguy





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Stanfield was the greatest Prime Minister we never had?
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I thought Stanfield was the greatest Prime Minister we never had?


I said Manning was the Best Prime Minister we could never have. I meant there was no possibility he would win. I'd lump him in with Broadbent and Bouchard and other leaders of minor parties who never had a chance to be P.M.

Manning would have made an awesome P.M. Honest and Conservative, an anti-politian.
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Did Harper really betray Manning?

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