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cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:33 pm    Post subject: Bloggers for MMP Reply with quote

Here in Ontario, us supporters of MMP have started up a little thing called Bloggers for MMP...

if any Tories here are interested in being a part of it, just drop me a line and I'll get you in...

VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!

erl
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!


This would lead to the end of Conservative Governments in Canada and legitamize coallition governments like Israels. In coalitions the Conservatives would be the odd man out. Not that the lefties aren't odd...
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
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votes: 36

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!


This would lead to the end of Conservative Governments in Canada and legitamize coallition governments like Israels. In coalitions the Conservatives would be the odd man out. Not that the lefties aren't odd...


I agree. I can see the headlines now...

Centre-right party will unite with Prolife party to form government. The CBC will then run segments about how the leader of the Prolife party doesn't believe in dinosaurs and everyone will vote liberal.
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that MMP would give the people who traditionally vote for any party, not just LPC or CPC. I think it would take the "strategic" vote out of the equation.

For example, many people in Quebec have always viewed LPC as the only alternative to keep the Bloc out in the past (Although Harper did awseome, not to mention Ad-scam helping). If this were not true, I feel the CPC would have a better chance in Quebec, because people could vote their conscious rather than hold their nose and vote LPC just to keep the Bloc out.

Who knows? Maybe a second or third national conservative party would come out of the woodwork. So-cons could have their own party. Fiscal conservatives could have one of their own parties. The best part is, that if they had >50% of the seats, they could form the coalition government. I just think there are more possibilities under a MPP rather than than the NDP-LPC-CPC triad that we have now under our current first past the poll system.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Who knows? Maybe a second or third national conservative party would come out of the woodwork. So-cons could have their own party. Fiscal conservatives could have one of their own parties. The best part is, that if they had >50% of the seats, they could form the coalition government.


Conservatives have a hard time living under a big tent. But MMP is not the answer. Regional parties forming conservative coalitions would be better They wouldn't split the vote like Preston did with the Reform/PC face off.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
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votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Bloggers for MMP Reply with quote

cerl7011 wrote:
Here in Ontario, us supporters of MMP have started up a little thing called Bloggers for MMP...

if any Tories here are interested in being a part of it, just drop me a line and I'll get you in...

VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!

erl


On this topic, we disagree.. I am firmly oposed to MMP.

but kudos on the activism nonetheless.

VOTE AGAINST MMP OCT. 10TH!!! 8)
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope that one day all of Canada can adopt the single transferable ballot. I think that is probably the best voting system devised to date. Having party lists does have its advantages, you could have policy wonks on there who have no chance of being elected because they lack presence, like that Senator fellow Harper appointed, or Dion.

Seriously though, it would be one way to get experts into your cabinet under our Parliamentary system.

What we really need is to triple the number of seats in Parliament. The way it stands, half or more of the ruling party MPs get cabinet, secretary, committee chair, or some other big money perk, and the other half toe the line because there is a chance that they will get the perk too. With significantly more MPs, the back benchers would know they weren't going nowhere, so they might be more willing to rock the boat, thereby reducing the PMs power.
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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votes: 10

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
With significantly more MPs, the back benchers would know they weren't going nowhere, so they might be more willing to rock the boat, thereby reducing the PMs power.


Very interesting. I really like that idea. I do think the PM under any government has far far FAR too much power. The only drawback that I can see is that having one MP cross the floor with triple the MP's would mean far less. Under the current environment it makes a lot of difference. Right now, one vote could make the difference in any join CPC/NPD action (yeah right). I still like the idea though.
Ravon





Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we know, or should know, is that our first past the post system sucks big time. It always results in the minority of voters electing a majority government which then goes on to lead as though they had the support of the entire voting public. It is a natural setup for the arrogance that we see far too often in politicians of every stripe. As for those who say the conservative could never win in a representative system I would encourage them to look to Germany, and France where conservatives have won.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What we know, or should know, is that our first past the post system sucks big time.


Your wrong. Our country is not a screwed up mess. First past the post has worked fine. It's the minor Leftwing parties that want this so the can have power that would vastly out way their % of the vote.

So you could have the party with the most votes , let's say the CPC at 38% not forming a government because the Libs 29%, Dippers 14% and Greens 7%, add up to 50%. Can you imagine the leftwing programs and waste a government like that could create.

The funny thing is that this would peeve off a majority of the people because if you counted their second choice the CPC would probably be over 50%. You would have the country held ransom by the smallest parties under any form of MMP.

I agree with KW. Single transferable vote or status quo.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coalition governments would NOT function well in Canada as our political spectrum is too diverse - who would we conservatives form government with?
mbennett





Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 105
Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Bloggers for MMP Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
cerl7011 wrote:
Here in Ontario, us supporters of MMP have started up a little thing called Bloggers for MMP...

if any Tories here are interested in being a part of it, just drop me a line and I'll get you in...

VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!

erl


On this topic, we disagree.. I am firmly oposed to MMP.

but kudos on the activism nonetheless.

VOTE AGAINST MMP OCT. 10TH!!! 8)


Yeah I agree. Conservative governments as we know then would be dead. Everyone in the conservative movement would splinter off into Libertarian and Christian Haritage camps. Our electorate system now is fine, MPP would give way to much power to the NDP and we do not want that.
Hasdrubal





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1112
Reputation: 66
votes: 5
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!


This would lead to the end of Conservative Governments in Canada and legitamize coallition governments like Israels. In coalitions the Conservatives would be the odd man out. Not that the lefties aren't odd...

I can see it now:

Welcome to the Union of Socialist Provinces of the Soviet Dominion of Canada
Ravon





Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 289
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votes: 7

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Bloggers for MMP Reply with quote

mbennett wrote:
biggie wrote:
cerl7011 wrote:
Here in Ontario, us supporters of MMP have started up a little thing called Bloggers for MMP...

if any Tories here are interested in being a part of it, just drop me a line and I'll get you in...

VOTE FOR MMP OCT 10TH!!!

erl


On this topic, we disagree.. I am firmly oposed to MMP.

but kudos on the activism nonetheless.

VOTE AGAINST MMP OCT. 10TH!!! 8)


Yeah I agree. Conservative governments as we know then would be dead. Everyone in the conservative movement would splinter off into Libertarian and Christian Haritage camps. Our electorate system now is fine, MPP would give way to much power to the NDP and we do not want that.

So are you saying that the conservative party cannot attract enough of a following to be elected in Canada. That it lacks the flexibility to build a coalition. That is just silly. Here in BC the Social Credit party which was very conservative built fantastic coalitions with the liberals and conservatives to defeat the NDP for decades. In fact the present government although they call themselves the liberal party is really the socreds under a new banner.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the British parliamentary system the party with the second most votes is the Loyal opposition. They are instructed to find fault with government policy, to show alternatives to give the electoate any choice. In a coalition government in this type of system I don't know if the second place party could be part of the government. Wher the Libs or Conservatives in B.C. ever the loyal opposition at the time they formed coalitions with the Social credit?
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