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How should Ontario proceed with funding religious schools?
Fund ALL religion-based education institutes
18%
 18%  [ 3 ]
Fund NO religion-based education institutes
56%
 56%  [ 9 ]
Status Quo
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 16

Author Message
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
We have segregation now with the Catholic school; is anybody suggesting that Catholics don't fit into the mainstream because of it?

Remember, under the Tory plan, attendance at these schools would be voluntary. People could go to the regular public schools if they liked.


The issue is not whether catholics fit in or not in the current state;

if you start seperating people based on their religions, you will end up with more segregation.

Catholics make up a very large part of our society, a part that has already integrated with the rest of our society. Now imagine if you will the effects of doing this for those who practise religions that are not a well-integrated part of our society. As it is, students who practise those religions have the benefit of seeing others who may not be part of their religion through the public school system.

Beyond even these considerations; should we be paying for other people's religions? The answer is simple; no. And I don't really care how it's done; I don't want my tax dollars in any way shape or form going to these schools.

Easy solution; Cut funding for all religion-based schools, allow the parents to decide if they want to send them there.

Their tax dollars go to the public system as it forms part of the social safety net. The school is there, should it ever be needed by them. If they choose to circumvent it, then so be it, but that doesn't mean they don't pay for it.

In a two-tier health system it would work the same way ;)
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
Ravon wrote:
westmanguy wrote:
I support John Tory's plan.

I do not support John Tory's plan.


Tory's plan very well may have cost his party my vote...


IIf I could vote... :P ...then it would have for me too...I'm probably not going to campaign for them here now...I was actually looking at supporting the greens... 8)

erl
Swan Song





Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 133
Reputation: 26.7Reputation: 26.7Reputation: 26.7
votes: 1

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
We have segregation now with the Catholic school; is anybody suggesting that Catholics don't fit into the mainstream because of it?


Poppycock! I repeat, Roman Catholicism is the largest religous denomination in Ontario. In the 2001 Census, Protestants and Catholics were virtually tied - 34.9% and 34.7% respectively. When the 2006 Census results are out, Catholics will unquestionably be in the pole position. More fundementally, Catholics are larger by far than any single Protestant denomination. Therefore, there is no wonder that Catholic schools are models of integration and inclusion, not segregation and seclusion. Ony if or when any of the other whining religous minorities rival these numbers and successes should we even bother to take them seriously as they pander for government funding of their private passions.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggie wrote:
Quote:
Easy solution; Cut funding for all religion-based schools, allow the parents to decide if they want to send them there
.

easy solution: if you send your kids to christian school(any religious school) give the parents a tax break equal to the amount of taxes they pay to the school board as part of the property tax. That way they don't have to pay double to send their kid to school. It would be fair to all.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you start seperating people based on their religions, you will end up with more segregation.

Again, I say we already have "segregation". We have Catholic schools and private religious schools.

We're not talking about breaking apart public schools, we're talking about taking private schools which are "segregated" and making them a part of the public system.

1) private schools would have the OPTION of joining the public system

2) students would have the OPTION of attending those schools.

I like the idea of more school choice which creates more competition.

Quote:
Easy solution; Cut funding for all religion-based schools, allow the parents to decide if they want to send them there


That's the problem with your argument: its not an easy solution.

It would require a constitutional change which is no easy task.

Anybody who tries to touch the Catholic system would face massive political and legal opposition from not only Catholics, but also from Francophones who would see it as an assault against them which would turn the issue into one of minority rights.

Any political party that got rid of the Catholic system would be thrown out of office and would probably not get back in power for quite some time.

So, if the problem is that it is unfair to fund one religious school system but not others, and you can't realistically defund that school system, what is your only other option?:

Extend public funds to other religious schools.
Zak





Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 44
Reputation: 16.4Reputation: 16.4
votes: 1
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anybody who tries to touch the Catholic system would face massive political and legal opposition from not only Catholics, but also from Francophones who would see it as an assault against them which would turn the issue into one of minority rights.


Actually, Quebec got rid of its separate schools ten years ago by ammending the constitution (Ontario can do the same), so the argument that francophones support separate schools is flawed. Newfoundland got rid of its separate system and opting for one public school system a few years ago after attempting to fund all religions (at huge financial costs).

I find it odd that there are conservatives who support funding all religious schools. All this will do is create even more bureaucracy and waste in the system. You can't possibly fund all religions so who decides which 'deserve' funding and which don't. You would have to create some sort of socialist commitee to decide these things. It would be far simpler and more in tune with conservative ideals if the government would stay out of religion altogether. If you think religious education is necessary then in should be taught in church on your own time and dime or send your kids to private school and leave the government out. The government doesn't exist to support your faith so start taking some responsibility for your own life and keep church and state separate.

There is support from a broad coalition of religious and non-religious organizations to eliminate separate school funding. ( www.onessn.org )
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How should Ontario proceed with funding religious schools?

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