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FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:14 am    Post subject: Was Greece the Start of the West? Reply with quote

Hey all.
I was just thinking about this today. On the one hand we had demo. for the first time and they had great writing and art.
On the other hand at that time civilization came from the East and there was contact. It is not like the greeks did not have respect for the Persians (this varied of course, everyone was much more xenophobic)
so my question is, was it really the start of western civilization or not?
Keep in mind that the greek texts were lost to Europe until the 1450's and that they also influenced the Islamic world (which was far ahead of the west until around 1500).
Cheers
Joahob





Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greeks, Romans, Celts, Balts, and the Germanic peoples are all the decedents of Japheth. The Romans adopted parts of the Hellenic culture and spread it throughout Europe as their empire grew. So yes. I think it was the beginning of western civilization as we know it.
cerl7011





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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if they were the start of the west...but they did contribute alot to the development of western culture...but tonnes of other groups/people/states threw in ideas and philiosophies that helped build up western civilization as we know it...

erl
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue that it is the nation of Israel that sparked what we would consider the modern Western world. We don't call them Judeao-Christian values for nothing. Mainly there were a lot of steps. Ancient Greece contributed the idea of the citizen, the duty of the citizen. There was Stoic thought from Rome. Judeao-Christian values, Protestant work ethic, there are deep foundations for the modern West. A few hundred or a thousand years for the ideas to percolate together, and presto!
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it depends on your definition of western civilization. I consider citizenship, constitutional, secular government, rule of law, capitalism (not just trade, but a system of banking, investments, and land ownership), and freedom on inquiry (ie. science) to be the critical aspects of what constitutes 'western' civilization. So yeah, I'd consider hellenic Greece to more or less be the beginning of that tradition.

If you include Judeochristianity in your definition of civilization, then that aspect would start in ancient Israel.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you include Judeochristianity in your definition of civilization, then that aspect would start in ancient Israel.

Western civilization was well established by the time of the diaspora. Alexander and his conquests were responsible for the spread of much Greek culture and prevented alot of eastern cultural influence from spreading to Greece and further west.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I referring to only Judeochristian religion, rather than other aspects of western civilization. I agree that Alexander's conquests played a huge role in the spread of Hellinism beyond the Mediterranean.
Winnipeg_tory





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, humble beginings indeed.

JK
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPARTAAAA!!!!!
don muntean





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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Greece the Start of the West? Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Hey all.
I was just thinking about this today. On the one hand we had demo. for the first time and they had great writing and art.
On the other hand at that time civilization came from the East and there was contact. It is not like the greeks did not have respect for the Persians (this varied of course, everyone was much more xenophobic)
so my question is, was it really the start of western civilization or not?
Keep in mind that the greek texts were lost to Europe until the 1450's and that they also influenced the Islamic world (which was far ahead of the west until around 1500).
Cheers


Actually we get the best of western culture - the laws etc., from ancient Israel - the heathen nations only gave the world things of no real value.

In fact the idea of an individual's 'rights' comes from ancient Israel:

To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High, To subvert a man in his cause, the LORD approveth not. [Lamentations 3.35-36]

Can one find anything like that in any other ancient culture? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not Really!
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah the idea of a written law code that everyone can view, that is totally heathen and of no real value. Forget the codes of Shulgi hammurabi. Or writing, thats total bs.
Yeah and writing itself, no value at all.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Yeah the idea of a written law code that everyone can view, that is totally heathen and of no real value. Forget the codes of Shulgi hammurabi. Or writing, thats total bs.
Yeah and writing itself, no value at all.


The codes of Hammurabi are a pale reflection of those laws and ethics found in the Bible...
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Was Greece the Start of the West?

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