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FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:45 am    Post subject: Was Hitler left or right wing? Reply with quote

On one thread (maybe about anti-Semitism) there was a small argument about if Hitler was right or left wing.
I was wondering what you all thought? The Nazis had both left and right wing elements.
I see Hitler as more of a pragmatic totalitarian. He was willing to do whatever and borrow what ideology he needed to advance his goals.
Thatís just my views though, anyone care to comment?
Joahob





Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, like most other political leaders I can think of, Hitler had elements of left and right. The traditional left-right compass has been pretty useless as a tool for gauging political ideology in the last hundred years. I think it's about time we discard it.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He self identified as a socialist, so I will agree with him. The political spectrum is always changing though, he might be considered less left wing if he were around today and more of a centrist. Antisemitism is most definitely a feature of the modern left though. Don't know how long it has been.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was a left wing socialist piece of dung - may he stay in hell forever!
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My interpretation of the left wing right wing political spectrum has been that:

Leftwing - the good of society(people collectively) is more important than the rights of the individual. This leads to social and economic engineering of which Socialism and communism are the furthest leftwing expression of.

Rightwing - the rights and freedoms of the individual are more important than the collective rights of society. This leads to personal freedoms and reponsibilities of which libertarianism is the furthest expression of.

Hitler being a totalitarian tyrant and manipulator does not fit on the spectrum except in the minds of leftwing nut cases who think that leftists policy is a panacea for all of societies ills.

Here is a link to such a nutjobs arguments. He gives the old argument about the policies of left and right in such a partisan fashion that it is makes my blood boil.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm
I've highlighted the actual rightwing policies. I've italicized the screwball ideas.

Quote:
"But since the far right is trying peg Hitler as a leftist, it's worth reviewing the tenets popularly associated with the right. These include:

Individualism over collectivism.
Racism or racial segregation over racial tolerance.
Eugenics over freedom of reproduction.
Merit over equality.

Competition over cooperation.
Power politics and militarism over pacifism.
One-person rule or self-rule over democracy
.
Capitalism over Marxism.
Realism over idealism.
Nationalism over internationalism.
Exclusiveness over inclusiveness.
Meat-eating over vegetarianism.

Gun ownership over gun control
Common sense over theory or science.
Pragmatism over principle.
Religion over secularism."


This my friends is what the left believes and can explain the hostility and fear that influences such personalities as Elizabeth May and Jack Layton.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm ...

Quote:
Individualism over collectivism.


The author set this up as a strawman when he explored it further, and in twisted himself into knots explaining how leftists prize individuality more than conservatives. His key examples? How conservatives are overtly patriotic and place value on military service. :roll:

Quote:
Racism or racial segregation over racial tolerance.


Yes, definately standard conservative philosophy.

[quotes]Eugenics over freedom of reproduction.[/quotes]

If memory serves, most eugenicists in North America have been members of the statist left (ie. Tommy Douglas, some prochoice extremists).

Quote:
Merit over equality.
Competition over cooperation.
Power politics and militarism over pacifism.


Yeah, I'll give him those. I might rephrase the first as 'Equality of Opportunity over Equality of Outcome'.

Quote:
One-person rule or self-rule over democracy.


It's true that some conservatives (like myself) favour constitutional monarchies. On the the other hand, we tend to value populism. Leftists seem to like dictators (Castro, Chavez, Mao, ...etc), or handing over democratic processes to oligarchical bodies (ie. 'The Party' or the Courts).

Quote:
Capitalism over Marxism.
Realism over idealism.
Nationalism over internationalism.


Again, I'll give him those. I don't see them as necesarrily bad things. I wouldn't call Hitler a capitalist though - he more or less nationalized the entire economy, even if he wasn't fond of communism. The funny part about the author's analysis is that the statements used to support the 'nationalism' argument provide evidence of Hitler's socialism.

Quote:
Exclusiveness over inclusiveness.


I found this so vague as to be overly meaningless.

Quote:
Meat-eating over vegetarianism.


I actually agree with him on this. I usually think it's absurd when this is advanced as proof of Hitler's 'leftness'. I'm not a vegitarian, and I usually find them a bit goofy, but it's still rather insulting.

Quote:
Gun ownership over gun control


His analysis here totally distorts both the history of gun control in Germany, and totally ignores his seziure of private firearms in occupied countries. I will agree that private owenership of firearms was irrelevant to Hitler's rise in, and control of, Germany.

Quote:
Common sense over theory or science.


His implication seems to be that conservatives also favoour common sense over science, which is asinine. The strange mysticism of Hitler reminds me more of certain groups among the left than any on the religious right.

Quote:
Pragmatism over principle.


Again, not necesarrily a bad thing.

Quote:
Religion over secularism.


Again, the author really had to strain logic for this one. He seems to claim that Hitler was simultaneously an athiest and a Catholic, and that because he attempted to pevert the power of the Church for his own ends, this was a conservative trait.

So yeah, considered in its entirety, his argument is rediculous. Useful as an example of politically motivated revisionism, though.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just let the lefties debate long and hard over how bad we are. Hopefully, they get so caught up in it that they forget to do background checks on their candidates and such.
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Was Hitler left or right wing?

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