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Blue Meanie





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:

...... He is fully in control of the party of the direction of the party. The environment stamp that he is putting on the Liberals is his own idea. The way he treated Khan and welcomed Garth are another two examples of he is calling the shots.


I don't think he is a "puppet" in the strict sense, but neither is he "fully in control". Party insiders and backroom hacks, not to mention the old Liberal Establishment (ie. the old money financers of the Party) all exercise considerable influence over what he can do.
Glenn
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue Meanie wrote:
palomino_pony wrote:

...... He is fully in control of the party of the direction of the party. The environment stamp that he is putting on the Liberals is his own idea. The way he treated Khan and welcomed Garth are another two examples of he is calling the shots.


I don't think he is a "puppet" in the strict sense, but neither is he "fully in control". Party insiders and backroom hacks, not to mention the old Liberal Establishment (ie. the old money financers of the Party) all exercise considerable influence over what he can do.
Glenn


Agreed... He's on a leash, but he's not a full-fledged puppet.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think"fully in control" was a bit strong. The point I poorly attempted to make, was that Dion is steering the Liberal party in a new direction with his focus on the environment. This is coming from Dion, unless as someone suggested that this is a campaign ploy to set up a smoke screen in order to blind side the CPC later. If Iggy or Rae won the leadership there is no way that the Liberals would be so "green".

There will always be party hacks and insiders as well as campaign manager/fundraisers that call some of the shots, but with Dion coming from the "outside" to win the leadership, I think that these people are less in control than they would have been say if Iggy won.
Blue Meanie





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
...... If Iggy or Rae won the leadership there is no way that the Liberals would be so "green"......


Possibly. But I think the left senses that "green" is an area where they can find a lot of votes. At least thats what the media keeps telling us day in and day out with their "revealing" polls on how the environment is the most important issue for Canadians. I suspect if the MSM went back to just reporting sensationalized crime stories, crime would soon be the number one priority.
Glenn
Len





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Location: Winnipeg

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't exactly call him a puppet but at the same time I've seen nothing from him so far that has impressed me even in the slightest. His only position on anything seems to be to take the opposite stand of what the Tories say. The Liberals seem to be floundering, at least to me.
biggie





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly, the number of people who consider the environment their top priority is extremely low - it's in the 15% range. that means that 85% of people care more about something else than the environment...
But with all the media attention, that's likely to change.
Hasdrubal





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apothis wrote:
I wouldn't exactly call him a puppet but at the same time I've seen nothing from him so far that has impressed me even in the slightest. His only position on anything seems to be to take the opposite stand of what the Tories say. The Liberals seem to be floundering, at least to me.

Unlike the Conservatives the media tends to help the Liberals when it comes to their floundering. :cry:

How'lo the Or'i :lol:
Duck Tory





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's add a lack of Social Conscience and Racial Hypercrit to the list of things that make Dion a puppet. He is no more then a person who has turned his back on Reality and society as a whole....Hell the entire Liberals have done it.
winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dion as a leader is the best thing the could of happened to Harper. A soft, french, one issue leader will not go over with Canadians well. Dion is only going to be able to hang on to "don't vote for Harper" votes in the next election usless he has a major change of character.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dion is a good reason not to have delegated conventions vote for the leader! :wink: All the Liberals care about is good TV exposure when it comes to their convention.
Charles





Joined: 18 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Dion as a Puppet Reply with quote

Biggie, please give your rational for not liking the use of the word Puppet?

Personally, I find it quite appropriate for politicians. Appropriate political puppets...has nice alliterative appeal does it not? Politicians are controlled by many strings. They are not men of free will.
biggie





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Dion as a Puppet Reply with quote

Charles wrote:
Biggie, please give your rational for not liking the use of the word Puppet?

Personally, I find it quite appropriate for politicians. Appropriate political puppets...has nice alliterative appeal does it not? Politicians are controlled by many strings. They are not men of free will.


My rationale? simple; The word puppet suggests that the person is a "false" leader; that they take their orders from a power greater.

In politics, this term is thrown around when leaders follow suit. Instead of giving our elected officials the respect they deserve for their decisions, whether you agree with them or not, it is a blatent and baseless attack. Not to mention it is completely childish. You engage in those kinds of attacks when you have nothing intelligent to say

How would you feel if I suggested you were a puppet of the left wing media machine?
Charles





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Political Puppets Reply with quote

Biggie says "The word puppet suggests that the person is a "false" leader; that they take their orders from a power greater."

Political Leaders do take their orders from higher powers. Some, like Bush, proclaim that they receive messages from "beyond the stars". I should respect this?

Most politicians take their orders from the Party Machine. To think otherwise is naive, to use your words, childish. Respect comes not from a title, not from rhetoric, but from observed action. An adult should be able to think for himself/herself and not be dictated to by a leader. To follow blinkered, is to deserve the derision that one has for the nodding doggie in the car backwindow. (Question Period springs to mind)

Some politicians take their orders from the Money Elite. Strings are pulled. They even have "handlers". As a whiskered adult, do you argue otherwise?

Biggie asks: "How would you feel if I suggested you were a puppet of the left wing media machine?"

I would totally agree with you, if you left out the "left wing" part. The Media I see flies on two wings and certainly does pull our strings.


Last edited by Charles on Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would totally agree with you, if you left out the "left wing" part. The Media I see flies on two wings and certainly does pull our strings.


You must read the National Post and watch Global News.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Political Puppets Reply with quote

Charles wrote:
Some, like Bush, proclaim that they receive messages from "beyond the stars". I should respect this?

An adult should be able to think for himself/herself and not be dictated to by a leader.


I hope you aren't honestly suggesting that leaders don't seek the advice of others. As you pointed out, Bush says that he receives "messages" and "guidance" from "beyond the stars". You, incorrectly, assume that that means that he doesn't think for himself. The logic doesn't follow.
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