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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Why Europe is "circling the drain" Reply with quote

By Paul Belien

The German author Henryk M. Broder recently told the Dutch newspaper "De Volkskrant" (12 October) that young Europeans who love freedom, better emigrate. Europe as we know it will no longer exist 20 years from now. Whilst sitting on a terrace in Berlin , Broder pointed to the other customers and the passers-by and said melancholically: "We are watching the world of yesterday."

Europe is turning Muslim. As Broder is sixty years old he is not going to emigrate himself. "I am too old," he said. However, he urged young people to get out and "move to Australia or New Zealand . That is the only option they have if they want to avoid the plagues that will turn the old continent uninhabitable."

Many Germans and Dutch, apparently, did not wait for Broder's advice. The number of emigrants leaving the Netherlands and Germany has already surpassed the number of immigrants moving in. One does not have to be prophetic to predict, like Henryk Broder, that Europe is becoming Islamic. Just consider the demographics.

The number of Muslims in contemporary Europe is estimated to be 50 million. It is expected to double in twenty years . By 2025, one third of all European children will be born to Muslim families. Today Mohammed is already the most popular name for new-born boys in Brussels , Amsterdam, Rotterdam , and other major European cities.

Broder is convinced that the Europeans are not willing to oppose islamization. "The dominant ethos ," he told De Volkskrant, "is perfectly voiced by the stupid blonde woman author with whom I recently debated. She said that it is sometimes better to let yourself be raped than to risk serious injuries while resisting . She said it is sometimes better to avoid fighting than run the risk of death."

In a recent op-ed piece in the Brussels newspaper De Standaard (23 October) the Dutch (gay and self-declared "humanist") author Oscar Van den Boogaard refers to Broder's interview. Van den Boogaard says that to him coping with the islamization of Europe ! is like "a process of mourning." He is overwhelmed by a "feeling of sadness." "I am not a warrior," he says, "but who is? I have never learned to fight for my freedom. I was only good at enjoying it."

As Tom Bethell wrote in this month's American Spectator: "Just at the most basic level of demography the secular-humanist option is not working." But there is more to it than the fact that non-religious people tend not to have as many children as religious people, because many of them prefer to "enjoy" freedom rather than renounce it for the sake of children. Secularists, it seems to me, are also less keen on fighting. Since they do not believe in an afterlife, this life is the only thing they have to lose. Hence they will rather accept submission than fight. Like the German feminist Broder referred to, they prefer to be raped than to resist.

"If faith collapses, civilization goes with it," says Bethell. That is the real cause of the closing of civilization in Europe. Islamization is simply the consequence. The very word Islam means "submission" and the secularists have submitted already. Many Europeans have already become Muslims, though they do not realize it or do not want to admit it.

Some of the people I meet in the U.S. are particularly worried about the rise of anti-Semitism in Europe . They are correct when they fear that anti-Semitism is also on the rise among non-immigrant Europeans. The latter hate people with a fighting spirit. Contemporary anti-Semitism in Europe (at least when coming from native Europeans) is related to anti-Americanism. People who are not prepared to resist and are eager to submit, hate others who do not want to submit and are prepared to fight. They hate them because they are afraid that the latter will endanger their lives as well. In their view everyone must submit.

This is why they have come to hate Israel and America so much, and the small band of European "islamophobes" who dare to talk about what they see happening around them. West Europeans have to choose between submission ( Islam) or death. I fear, like Broder, that they have chosen submission - just like in former days when they preferred to be red rather than dead.

----------------------------------------------------- Europeans apparently never read John Stuart Mill:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse . A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


by CBC News, Feb. 13, 2007 -

Are we talking past each other? A new poll carried out in conjunction with the CBC suggests just that as it seeks to plumb the attitudes of Canadian Muslims and their fellow citizens toward each other.

Take for example the whole issue of fitting in. The survey by Environics Research Group asks respondents if they feel Muslims coming to Canada want to adopt Canadian customs or remain distinct from the larger society.

For non-Muslim Canadians, 57 per cent feel Muslims want to remain distinct from everyone else ? but only 23 per cent of Muslim Canadians feel that way: A full 55 per cent say they want to fit in.

Related story: Glad to be Canadian, Muslims say

How exact is that finding? It's hard to say. The Environics poll queries 2,045 members of the general public and 500 Muslim Canadians and has an accuracy in the smaller sample of 4.4 percentage points either way, 19 times out of 20.

It should probably also be seen alongside a Pew Global Attitudes poll in early 2005. The respected American research centre found 60 per cent of Muslims here saw themselves as distinct from the general Canadian population. If both surveys are right, that would represent a remarkable sea change in attitudes in the space of a couple of years.

Still, clear that away ? along with some other misconceptions Canadians have about their Muslim compatriots ? and a remarkably different portrait appears of Canada's Muslim population.

Compared to their counterparts in the U.K., Germany, France and Spain, who were polled on a handful of similar issues by the Pew Research Centre, Canadian Muslims appear to be the most contented, moderate and, well, Canadian in the developed world.

Unfortunately there are not good comparisons to be made with U.S. Muslims. Gathering information in the U.S. on religious grounds is a highly controversial subject and any comparative survey would probably be skewed anyway by the U.S. role in Iraq.

But looking abroad, Canadian Muslims are clearly out of step with their European counterparts on such important issues as satisfaction with where they are living, perceived hostility from their co-citizens, the struggle between moderates and fundamentalists and, noticeably, the role of women.

By the numbers The international comparisons in many cases are quite stark. Asked, for example, how many Canadians do they think are hostile toward Muslims, 75 per cent of Canadian Muslims say either just some or very few. Only 17 per cent say most or many.

This is nowhere near the hostility Muslims feel in Europe, where they have been many more flash points of late over integration, fundamentalist teachings and such things as banning headscarves.

Per cent who feel that either some or most of their fellow citizens are hostile to Muslims? Muslims in Canada Britain Germany France Spain Just some/very 75 52 43 60 64 Most/many 17 42 51 39 31

Reinforcing that point is the general satisfaction Canadian Muslims feel about life in Canada, a satisfaction rate that is even higher than that (61 per cent) for the general population.

Per cent who are satisfied with the way things are going in their country? Muslims in Canada Britain Germany France Spain Satisfied 81 51 44 33 76 Dissatisfied 15 38 52 67 19

Moderates versus hardliners Concern about Islamic extremism is now widespread across the world, even among Muslim populations. (One exception the Pew research group found was China, where almost 60 per cent showed little or no concern for the prospect.)

The most recent Pew global survey in the summer of 2006 also found Muslims around the world were growing more embittered toward the West, blaming it for their lack of prosperity, and that surprisingly large numbers, majorities even, in Indonesia, Turkey, Egypt and Jordan didn't believe it was a group of Arabs who carried out the 9/11 attacks on the U.S.

That said, Muslim opinion is clearly not monolithic and is mostly aligned with the moderates, particularly, it seems, in Canada. Consider:

Per cent who feel there is a struggle in their country between moderate Muslims and Islamic fundamentalists Muslims in Canada Britain Germany France Spain Yes 40 58 49 56 21 No 50 35 40 43 65 Per cent who identify with moderates or extremists in this struggle Muslims in Canada Britain Germany France Moderates 80 66 75 89 Extremists 14 25 14 10

Islamic identity and women One thing Canadian Muslims have in common with their counterparts in Europe and perhaps the entire developed world is their growing sense of Islamic identity. About 70 per cent of Canadian Muslims feel their community is undergoing a strong and growing sense of itself as Muslim today, which is about on par with Muslim sentiment in Europe.

Oddly, it is one of the issues where Canadian Muslims and their co-citizens share a common perception. But that is where matters end. Only 33 per cent of Canadians think this is a good thing compared with 85 per cent of Muslim Canadians who view their Islamic values as positive and in keeping with Canada's vaunted sense of multiculturalism.

Where these perceptions seem to clash is over the role of Muslim women in society, a common flashpoint. But even here attitudes are nuanced and Canadian Muslims seem once again at odds with their co-religionists overseas.

According to the Environics survey, 57 per cent of Muslim women in Canada wear no head covering at all; 38 per cent wear a hijab (the scarf that covers the hair and neck); and only a very small percentage wear full coverings.

That said, Canadian Muslims are strongly against banning the headscarf in public places, including schools, as several European countries are contemplating. A full 86 per cent of Canadian Muslims feel banning is a bad idea (compared with 55 per cent of other Canadians who feel that way as well). But at the same time, Canadian Muslims seem much more open than their counterparts elsewhere to the notion of Muslim women taking on more non-traditional roles. Consider:

Per cent who believe the quality of life for Muslim women is better or worse than in other countries Muslims in Canada Britain Germany France Spain Better 70 58 50 62 46 Worse 3 13 17 16 16 Per cent who are worried about Muslim women taking on modern roles: Muslims in Canada Britain Germany France Spain Very/somewhat 26 44 20 46 32 Not too/not at all 72 54 74 52 65 This Environics survey, in association with CBC, was based on telephone interviews with 500 Canadian Muslims and 2,045 members of the general public between Nov. 30, 2006, and Jan. 5, 2007. The Muslim sample is accurate to within plus or minus 4.4 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. The larger sample is accurate to within 2.2 percentage points over the same conditions.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bigger question is that 23% of muslims want to stay distinct from Canadian customs. That is still a high number.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess where this sorta stuff is at its lowest, in terms of manpower & support??? The US. Let's hear it for the ol' melting pot.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't kid yourself, Canada is a melting pot..the heat is just a little lower

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I still think that Muslims are happier in Canada because the way we treat them is less racist and our policies are better.

And if Canada is a melting pot what country which lets in large numbers of immigrants is not?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO, the reason we haven't experienced problems is 1) We're almost as much a melting pot as the US, and 2) We're nowhere near the percentage of population / ghettoization that the European countries have reached.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in France you are not allowed to ask questions about peoples religion.
But how often will they give someone with an Islamic name a job over someone with the same resume and a French name?
It is like they made racism illegal and just washed their hands of it.
Kind of like their "law" that French culture had a positive impact on the world!!!!
Toronto is nearly 7% Muslim and it is not a problem (vs 10% for France and who know show high in Paris).
I agree about the ghettoization and the melting pot though, the people living beside me are Muslims and fully integrated.
All I am saying is that if Canada is a melting pot then I dont think you could define any country as a tossed salad (thats what my old history teacher used to call Canada LOL)
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Why Europe is "circling the drain"

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