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Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6354
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Anglosphere speaks out in a symbolic show of support But when they originally saw what was happening in Vancouver, they were universally grabbed th the urge to bury their faces in their hands ... and utter ... How could they be that stupid. But they can ... and are. TC has the same excuse.

Prosecuting the Chinese Huawei executive is an idiotic way to hold China in check
Even if the telecom company poses a national security threat, this is not the way to fight it.
By Zachary Karabell

Zachary Karabell is the author of several books, including “The Leading Indicators: A Short History of the Numbers That Rule Our World.”
December 8, 2018

The U.S.-China relationship seemed to improve last week at the G-20 summit in Argentina, where President Trump announced he had reached an important agreement with President Xi Jinping. Then, an ominous development: American authorities asked Canada to arrest the chief financial officer of one of China’s largest technologies companies for alleged sanctions fraud and violations of U.S. export controls. Meng Wanzhou isn’t just a top leader at Huawei, which makes phones and other gadgets; she is also the daughter of the company’s founder and chairman, which makes her arrest somewhat like the Chinese arresting the daughter of Steve Jobs if she had helped run Apple. It would be an understatement to say that Beijing did not react well: It demanded her release and accused the U.S. government of violating the rights of a Chinese citizen.

The timing could hardly be worse, and from what can be told, it reflects the overall chaos of the Trump administration. National security adviser John Bolton claimed he was informed of the pending arrest by the Justice Department but did not pass that information to the president. That no one in the White House considered the implications of her arrest on the tenuous trade truce between China and the United States is itself rather astonishing.

The case against Huawei and its executives may be legitimate under U.S. law, but it is nonetheless a hideous political mistake. Perhaps Huawei used American-made components in equipment it sold to Iran, violating U.S. sanctions. But even in less ambiguous cases, there is always such a thing as prosecutorial discretion. Not every case that can be brought should be brought, and not every case should be prosecuted to the full letter of the law. In international cases, that is doubly true. [....]
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/12/08/prosecuting-chinese-huawei-executive-is-an-idiotic-way-hold-china-check/?utm_term=.f09340ded2f9
=================================================

I think "idiotic: is the right word, don't you? And of course it is even more idiotic to allow an idiotic allegation made by foreighners to threaten Canadians who risk being held as reciprocal hostages, to be used in payment of whatever ransom Canada demands.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1343
Reputation: 125.1
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that article.

You do realize it posits what I said looong ago about this? No? Well thats no surprise.

See, it was dumb of the USA to make the request. Your article agrees.

Considering our tenuous relationship with the orange idiot (who didnt even know the extradition request was made) it was thought best to agree as per the rules in place. So we did.

"The timing could hardly be worse, and from what can be told, it reflects the overall chaos of the Trump administration. "

All very true. The powers that be who decided this didnt think it all the way through. That of course is not our job, and as such we cannot make the case for stupidity since that's what prevails south of the border. We can merely look at the case , decide if it is legal as per the parameters of the agreement and then do what has to be done.

Glad to see you are learning.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6354
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, sort of ... wouldn't you say that the author acknowledges that that's how the squares look at it ... except Canada has jammed up on extraditing truly horrible people because the US has capital punishment. And Canada doesn't have to extradite anyone if what they did was not a crime in Canada. Was whatever it is alleged Meng did a crime in Canada?

What was it -- being an officer of her daddy's company, a Chinese Belinda Stronach? Or was it that the company traded with Iran? Is that a crime in Canada?

That's why we have judges ruling on these cases. With the glacial pace of Canadian so-called justice, justice is never done, justice delayed being what it is ...

What should have happened is that she should have been given bail on her own recognizance, and allowed to leave the country. It's not complicated. That's what sophisticated second-level powers would do. Trudeau has taken us out of that group.

You blame the US for making an idiotic request. I don't disagree, in fact I think it wants to extend US law extra-territorially and that's not a good thing. But how much worse is it to be the henchman executing the idiotic order?

Arresting her and putting her through the mill of US justice is not something that is in the best interest of the USA anyway. It's an embarrassing and complicating problem for Trump et. al. It could easily have been done by underlings in the Deep State to screw up the negotiations

It's enough that Chinese executives fear foreign travel in the West for American purposes.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1343
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votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Well, sort of ... wouldn't you say that the author acknowledges that that's how the squares look at it ...
Sorry...I am not sure what you mean here.

Quote:
..except Canada has jammed up on extraditing truly horrible people because the US has capital punishment. And Canada doesn't have to extradite anyone if what they did was not a crime in Canada. Was whatever it is alleged Meng did a crime in Canada?

Fraud is a crime in almost any country.
Quote:

What was it -- being an officer of her daddy's company, a Chinese Belinda Stronach? Or was it that the company traded with Iran? Is that a crime in Canada?

She is a very high level exec in her dads company. If she were like Belinda she would be in court fighting Frank.

If there are sanctions, then yes , it is a crime.

But I suspect that the arrest was predicated on the fraud aspect, which we know is a crime in both of our countries.

Quote:


What should have happened is that she should have been given bail on her own recognizance, and allowed to leave the country. It's not complicated. That's what sophisticated second-level powers would do. Trudeau has taken us out of that group.

Well...she ponied up the millions to the court without being asked. So she jumped the gun. If she wanted to pledge her money to get out on bail, so be it.
The Yanks determined she was a flight risk and as such she had to have her Passport taken. Well....one of the many she has. That too is illegal, for a chinese person.

Trudeau had nothing to do with the bail et al.
Quote:

You blame the US for making an idiotic request. I don't disagree, in fact I think it wants to extend US law extra-territorially and that's not a good thing. But how much worse is it to be the henchman executing the idiotic order?

Done right, as this was, it is easy to do but fraught w political repercussions. The US is not extending any law outside their borders with this move. None.
Quote:

Arresting her and putting her through the mill of US justice is not something that is in the best interest of the USA anyway.

Agredd, and perhaps they should have thought about that for a spell instead of calling us.
Quote:

It's enough that Chinese executives fear foreign travel in the West for American purposes.

I doubt many worry about it unless and of course they are involved with fraud and the like.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6354
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a fraud take place?

How do you define fraud and why does one take the allegations as sufficient to extradite?

How does a Chinese executive making deals with Irans constitute a crime punishabble in the USA? These are the questions you don't address. You talk as if a treaty obligation creates an obligation to join in what is, after all, an illegal extension of American courts.

I know this is a difficult concept for you to comprehend. There are so many "iffy"aspects to this that somebody should have run up a red flag. In fact, it seems contrived. I never expect to convince you anyway because -- you know -- prior loyalties.

But don't worry, it isn't a problem likely to affect you and your cubicle world.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1343
Reputation: 125.1
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Did a fraud take place?

How do you define fraud and why does one take the allegations as sufficient to extradite?

According to the US it took place.

How? You lie on official forms and make certified statements that turn out not to be true.

As she did.
Quote:

How does a Chinese executive making deals with Irans constitute a crime punishabble in the USA? These are the questions you don't address. You talk as if a treaty obligation creates an obligation to join in what is, after all, an illegal extension of American courts.

No. The simple answer is you dont read and retain.

I addressed this numerous times.

Huawei operates in the US. They use some parts/pieces that are american. Therefor they must abide my sanctions .

Ergo...charges.
Quote:


I know this is a difficult concept for you to comprehend.

Now there is a fatuous statement if I ever heard one.

My dear, it is you that keeps flopping around not knowing how this works, not me.

Should you wish, I could show you many times this is true.
Quote:

There are so many "iffy"aspects to this that somebody should have run up a red flag. In fact, it seems contrived. I never expect to convince you anyway because -- you know -- prior loyalties.

Iffy...perhaps, however that is why there may/will be a trial. To prove the case.

You needn't worry about me, I have a grasp of the subject that you readily admit by your postings that you do not possess the knowledge of how it works.
Quote:

But don't worry, it isn't a problem likely to affect you and your cubicle world.


LOL! SOS I see.

You DO know what SOS means......right?
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6354
Reputation: 299.3
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Harper says ‘a smart Canadian PM’ finds a way to get along with Trump
By Rahul Kalvapalle
National Online Journalist Global News

Former prime minister Stephen Harper says Canadian leaders have to find a way to get along with U.S. President Donald Trump because of Canada’s “overwhelming” dependence on the U.S. as an economic and geopolitical partner.

Harper made his remarks during a panel session with former British prime minister Tony Blair at the Raisina Dialogue, a geopolitical summit held in New Delhi and sponsored by the Indian government, on Tuesday.

“Every year, I would go to New York on business and [Trump] was on a list of people that asked to meet me but we never actually met,” Harper said when asked about his impressions of Trump. “But I know many of the people around him, I think I’ve got a pretty good picture.”

Without mentioning Prime Minister Justin Trudeau by name, Harper said he believes it’s important that “a smart Canadian prime minister” gets a few things right when dealing with the American president.

“First of all, he establishes — to the best of his ability — a good personal relationship with the president of the United States, regardless of that president’s personality or political party,” said Harper.

“Secondly, a smart prime minister of Canada — because we can often be off the radar in Washington — goes out of his way to show when we are onside with the United States how we can be a useful partner in furthering the United States’ global role because that’s ultimately in our interests.

“If you do those two things correctly, that is the basis on which you can then respectfully disagree when you need to.” [....]
https://globalnews.ca/news/4831917/stephen-harper-trudeau-trump/
=================================================

You never address anything. The problem is we have a Liberal Party leadership -- including the egregious Crystia Freeland -- that actively campaigned against Trump in his face ... which would qualify as being "not smart" on a grand scale.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1343
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votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that has what to do with the Huawei arrest ?

Nothing?

Oh ok. I suppose Harper is trying to be relevant again ?

Geebus, a failed mail room clerk (his only private sector job before being PM too !) trying to get his name in the paper.

Oh well.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6354
Reputation: 299.3
votes: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Sentenced To Death In China For Drug Smuggling
by Tyler Durden
Mon, 01/14/2019 - 08:02

As was widely expected after a Chinese court ordered a retrial of Canadian national Robert Schellenberg on drug trafficking charges last month, the Canadian national has now been sentenced to death for allegedly smuggling "an enormous amount of drugs" into China. He had earlier been sentenced to 15 years.


Quote:
Wei Du 杜唯
@WeiDuCNA
Breaking- Chinese state media: Canadian Robert Schellenberg sentenced to dead for drug smuggling after Chinese prosecutors appealed his 15-year original sentence.

16
7:42 AM - Jan 14, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy
38 people are talking about this

The harsh sentence, like the arrests of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor on vague charges of threatening national security (an investigation is reportedly ongoing, according to Chinese officials), is widely suspected to be retaliation for the arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou (who is also the daughter of the conglomerate's founder).

Few details about Schellenberg's case have been shared with the media, other than the fact that he was arrested in 2014, long before the Huawei dispute erupted. Canadian diplomats had reportedly been working with the Chinese government on the case. The retrial was ordered after Chinese prosecutors argued that Schellenberg's sentence was too lenient.

In a report published late last week, Canada's Globe and Mail carried remarks from Schellenberg's family, who said they feared his life was being used as a bargaining chip in the international dispute.

Quote:
"There’s no way they are not using him as a pawn," said Lauri Nelson-Jones, Mr. Schellenberg’s aunt, in an interview.

"And it’s just harsh. That’s someone’s kid. That’s someone’s brother and nephew. And to just say, ‘we’re going to think about ending his life now over this’ – it’s not warranted. It’s not deserved. It’s heartbreaking."


A legal scholar and expert in Chinese law said Schellenberg's case was "almost certainly being manipulated.

The case against Mr. Schellenberg "is almost certainly being politically manipulated," he said, although “in a much more subtle legalistic way than the other cases. It will bring more pressure on Canada but because it has been going on for a while, the Chinese have a more plausible legalistic defence."

They pointed out that Schellenberg's trial and sentencing took four years, but his retrial and second sentencing took just two weeks.

We imagine we'll be hearing more from Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau about the importance of respecting the "rule of law" as Canada struggles - probably unsuccessfully - to secure Schellenberg's return
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-14/china-imposes-death-penalty-canadian-convicted-drug-smuggling
=================================================

Now Justin has blood on his hands. I was thinking -- the Chinese will charge his family for the bullet they use to kill him, and sell his body for parts used in transplants. Justin likes to be a hero (using public money) ... perhaps he can save the family from the bill for the bullet by making it tax-deductible.

Or maybe buy the body parts so they can all be buried together.

That would be good.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1343
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The founder of Chinese tech giant Huawei is thanking Canada's justice system for the kind treatment of his daughter, the company's chief financial officer arrested last month in Vancouver on a U.S. warrant.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/huawei-founder-says-daughter-will-be-vindicated/ar-BBSkzxb?li=AAqARMz

Well good for him. Glad to see that he sees his daughters arrest conditions not to be too much a burden on her.
House arrest in a $6m house isnt the worst I guess.

Now if only the party rulers could be so civil.
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The Huawei Arrest & what it means

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