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Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, maybe if we banned opioids and heroin ... that'd solve another problem. And how about banning long lineups at brunch?

But change the culture? What an idea!

Is this going to be anything like the way you guys changed the culture about gender? Will there be a special pronoun for those with PAC licenses? What will you call a pansy with a gun?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


But change the culture? What an idea!

Its the only one that makes sense. That it escapes you is nobodies fault but yours.
Quote:

Is this going to be anything like the way you guys changed the culture about gender?

Ah yes., culture change along with education of the public on what constitutes gender. Nothing wrong with that.
Quote:
Will there be a special pronoun for those with PAC licenses? What will you call a pansy with a gun?

Bugs
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good one. First time I've seen any wit out of you Keep it up, it's to be encouraged.

But, sadly, you don't make any sense at all. You can't change the Moslem culture -- abusing, killing and robbing infidels is what Islam is all about. It's actually a sacred act, like jihad. Those are the only guys who have the gun connections and the motivation to go out by killing as many Christians as possible.

How do you propose to change that culture?

You mention education and the trouble is ... the public has a pretty good idea about how gender works. They didn't need as much 'education' as you think. So what you are talking about is treating gender the way some identity group thinks it should be. and do what the 'vinyl-wrapped' guys do -- hide whatever masculinity they have left lest someone think they're toxic?

How are you going to apply that to gun ownership for Moslems? How do invert reality that much about guns? These guys probably had an AK-47 in the house back home.

In the meantime, I think immigration checks and foot patrols are the order of the day. And maybe more surveillance.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Classic case of appearing to do something.

Change the culture, same as the Yanks need to do but we wouldnt have as far to go in doing it.




whats frustrating about this policy is its likely going to be sold to average uninformed Canadians as a cure all to gun violence in Canada .


the liberals and the media aren't being honestly about the basic facts and realities , even if they ban all the so called legal hand guns or make it much harder to legally acquire one in Canada

the criminals are highly unlikely to participate in any gun control initiative , there is no reason for them to disarm . and what's to stop them from simply smuggling more illegal hand guns across the border to replace whatever legal ones they can no longer access . there is always going to be hand guns they can easily access in the US and smuggle across our weakly secured border


it just doesn't seem like a real solution to crime , it seems like UN anti firearms policy being pushed on Canadians with no realistic expectation it actually prevent the criminals from shooting people in out cities


trudeau's solution to end crime is apparently to take the guns away from the hand gun shooter at the local gun club , not go after the gangsters , this is no solution at all and crime is not going to end anytime soon
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's too late for that. They just want to appear to be doing something, and it's not a call for gun-ban, but to study a gun-ban They have the perfect guy at the top of it, the guy who sat on his ass while gun violence in Torónto skyrocketed He''ll sit on his ass on this one too.

You know, I know, and TC knows -- that means just about everybody has no expectations about this. The whole point is to shift attention away from the thornier problem. Which is, as we all know, what was the shooter's motive?
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
I think it's too late for that. They just want to appear to be doing something, and it's not a call for gun-ban, but to study a gun-ban They have the perfect guy at the top of it, the guy who sat on his ass while gun violence in Torónto skyrocketed He''ll sit on his ass on this one too.

You know, I know, and TC knows -- that means just about everybody has no expectations about this. The whole point is to shift attention away from the thornier problem. Which is, as we all know, what was the shooter's motive?




one also has to wonder about the timing , there is a municipal election in Toronto currently and its mayor and council have been the ones calling for this ban . the study obviously helps there re-election chances as now they appear to be doing something about the cities gun problem even though there really not doing much at all

even if they ban " hand guns " in Toronto , everyone knows the criminal element is not going to honour such a ban so its a pointless gesture that will only disarm law abiding civilians and won't end crime


one also has to wonder about exceptions if they really go ahead with this crazy idea , in the UK when they banned hand guns even the police were disarmed


although its highly unlikely they'd go that far in Canada and the police would never support a ban if there officers were left unarmed in major cities like Toronto


there is also private security officers that carry hand guns , I know the ones at the legislature in queens park are now , would they still be allowed to carry a gun ?


what about brinks delivery drivers ? talk about an easy target if they were suddenly unarmed , if all the gangsters and criminals knew that ? they could rob the bank and take all the money and no one could do a thing to stop them , cause no one else but them had a gun


there is also the question of antique firearms , more specifically hand guns . some are very old and collectable . I know there is some that don't require a license so perhaps they would still be legal . but what about the more modern western style hand guns , some are very expensive like the old colts . would there owners be required to hand them over to be destroyed ? or would they be allowed to keep them until they died ? or sell them to collectors in the US as there worth a lot of money ?



it seem this ban idea was something that sounded good in the news but hasn't really been though out , which might explain why the liberals are reviewing the idea and not immediately moving forward on it
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


But, sadly, you don't make any sense at all. You can't change the Moslem culture -- abusing, killing and robbing infidels is what Islam is all about.

Uh oh...if thats the case then we gots problems Cletis ! There are billions of them, how can we survive?

Because we do, and the billions of them dont do anywhere near what you think. Thats a fact.
Quote:


Those are the only guys who have the gun connections and the motivation to go out by killing as many Christians as possible.

Well.... who knew the Muslims are ' the only ones who have gun connections '.
Now you have pissed off the criminal elements who may be christian, jewish, atheist !

They want to say...Hey we have connections too !
Quote:

How do you propose to change that culture?

As far as I can tell, changing the culture is the only way to get ahead.

Youll agree we do not have the same gun culture and killings as the US. We have far more than Japan (by a country mile) far less than many other countries.
The culture change around guns and what they are for is what I am talking about.
We here do not necessarily reach for a gun on a daily basis as many south of us do. We find it unnecessary but they do not. Thats culture.

It sure wont be easy to change but we could try.

Quote:
You mention education and the trouble is ... the public has a pretty good idea about how gender works.

You are the public and you dont have a clue so what does that say? You just like being angry because science and what some people want to be is such a hardship on yourself. Move on man, let it go, no one is causing you a moments harm.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't respond to at least the thrust of the questions, TC?

Nobody thinks that more gun control -- even gun bans -- will do anything but encourage the bad guys. The drug gangs mostly kill each other in settling their own disputes, and while that's not good, at least it's their own business. They aren't wanton about it.

There's only one group that encourages its members to kill members of other religions as a means of pleasing their God. Those are the people that Canadians are justifiably worried about. The ones that have BOTH of those characteristics.

It isn't that they are the only ones with the guns. It's that they're the only ones who get to party with an endless supply of virgins through all of eternity if they do an exemplary job of purifying the world of non-believers.

It isn't about there being billions of Moslems in the world. If it comes to that, we have drones. It's about taking reasonable precautions for our own safety, in our own country, and to make it clear to immigrants that multiculturalism means they have to be comfortable around people who eat bacon. Sorry, but we're not quitting bacon just so some Moslems will be happy. And they won't be happy anyway.

You duck the question of what it means when you talk about changing the culture. (Didn't you do enough of that over the last decade?) When I hear that kind of talk, I think of "social engineering". What you are trying to ignore is the use of the schools to propagandize social justice issues. There is no part of this that's a good thing. And there's no reason to believe that all of these means of stopping murder are more than a waste of time.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Why don't respond to at least the thrust of the questions, TC?

What questions?
[quote]

Quote:
The drug gangs mostly kill each other in settling their own disputes, and while that's not good, at least it's their own business. They aren't wanton about it.

Oh...like honour killings? All 12 since 2003 ?
Hey...at least its their own business. :)

Quote:
Those are the people that Canadians are justifiably worried about.

LOL. Nobody I know is worried about that. Seems the only ones who do come across as xenophobic. <cough cough>

Quote:
It isn't that they are the only ones with the guns. It's that they're the only ones who get to party with an endless supply of virgins through all of eternity if they do an exemplary job of purifying the world of non-believers.

Wow, stupidity paraded ! Well done.


Quote:

You duck the question of what it means when you talk about changing the culture.

English. Do you read it and comprehend it? I guess not, since I answered what I thought we need to change. How? Now thats the hard part.
Quote:
When I hear that kind of talk, I think of "social engineering". .
Well of course you do.
Whitey want immigrants to toe whitey's line.

Good lord you are funny !
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's not being mentioned by the media


as the concept being proposed by John Tory and Toronto city council , the concept of an urban gun ban has never been successfully done in a north American city , no city in north America has been able to ban criminals from possessing illegal hand guns


at its core its a liberal fantasy , the idea an urban gun ban is the cure all to solve crime in the big cities


its a solution that does not address the core problems facing our major cities or the reasons there is so much crime to begin


to just ban guns , does not remove the criminals from our streets , it does not solve the 100's or unsolved murders that our police forces cannot solve , it does not put more boots on the grounds or officers in troubled areas of the city , it does not reduce the amount of illegal drugs flowing into our communities


its just a liberal fantasy , the idea they can take away the legal hand guns and all the crime and bad news is just going to disappear


its too good to be true and is not based in reality , basically pure none sense
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Toronto Centre"]
Bugs wrote:
Why don't respond to at least the thrust of the questions, TC?

What questions?
Quote:


Quote:
The drug gangs mostly kill each other in settling their own disputes, and while that's not good, at least it's their own business. They aren't wanton about it.

Oh...like honour killings? All 12 since 2003 ?
Hey...at least its their own business. :)

Quote:
Those are the people that Canadians are justifiably worried about.

LOL. Nobody I know is worried about that. Seems the only ones who do come across as xenophobic. <cough cough>

Quote:
It isn't that they are the only ones with the guns. It's that they're the only ones who get to party with an endless supply of virgins through all of eternity if they do an exemplary job of purifying the world of non-believers.

Wow, stupidity paraded ! Well done.


Quote:

You duck the question of what it means when you talk about changing the culture.

English. Do you read it and comprehend it? I guess not, since I answered what I thought we need to change. How? Now thats the hard part.
Quote:
When I hear that kind of talk, I think of "social engineering". .
Well of course you do.
Whitey want immigrants to toe whitey's line.

Good lord you are funny !


You were wrong on the trade negotiations as well. That must make me a double racist!

You're hopeless, TC.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


You were wrong on the trade negotiations as well.

The ones that are not done yet? Can you give me the Lotto Max numbers for tonight too..?..please ??
Quote:
That must make me a double racist!

Not sure youre a racist, although I suspect you may well be, however your xenophobia is alarming. The sky is falling every day in your world.

I dont get so worked up about little things like you do, I try to enjoy life.
Quote:

You're hopeless, TC.

Coming from you that is a sincere compliment and I thank you for that.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yorkdale Mall: Toronto police respond to shots fired at shopping centre
Authorities say they are searching for multiple suspects, but that there were no initial signs of injury

Clark Mindock New York
@ClarkMindock
19 hours ago

Toronto police say they are evacuating a shopping mall that was placed on lock after gunfire was reported in the area.

Authorities received a call about the shots fired at around 2.50pm local time, and were then dispatched to the Yorkdale Shopping Centre.

There are multiple potential suspects on the loose, including two individuals who police say appeared to be in their 20s. One of the potential suspects was wielding a black handgun, according to social media accounts for the Toronto Police Department.

Some of those shoppers posted on social media, describing their experience.

“Was eating at The Cheesecake Factory when alarms started going and people started running. Stuck in the parking lot,” Travis Paul, a Twitter user who said he was at the mall, wrote on that platform.

Another user chimed in saying she was being locked in a watch store, but indicated some level of confusion about whether shots were actually fired.

"I’m in Yorkdale shots were fired ? Locked in the Rolex store for safety," that user, Kelly Freeman, wrote.

“We were right beside what happened. It happened in the area of Starbucks and Nadege. We were in the Arc’teryx store,” a man who said he was at the mall told local media. “What we heard sounded like two gunshots. When we heard that everyone started scrambling. All we could think of was head to the back of the store".

Aerial footage captured showed hundreds of people standing around outside of the mall after being evacuated.

The mall has said in a statement that it plans on reopening Friday morning.

"Following today’s incident, we will be closed for the rest of the day to allow police to investigate," the mall said in a statement. "Yorkdale is secure and we are cooperating with police to safely evacuate the centre. We expect to open as scheduled tomorrow morning at 10am".


They aren't telling us much about this one either -- a sure sign the shooters were either Moslem, black, or immigrants. A day later ...

Maybe we should ban guns in malls? That'd probably fix the problem.
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( various findings from a nanos survey , but what the people pushing for a ban on hand guns don't want to talk about is that the guns currently being used in crimes are already illegal and a ban isn't going to remove them from the streets . your only removing the guns from the people the police have already approved to own them and deemed low risk , how does that possibly make anyone safer ? )



Handgun ban supported by majority of Canadians: Nanos survey


Ryan Flanagan, Web Journalist, CTVNews.ca

@flanaganryan
.
Published Sunday, September 2, 2018 10:00PM EDT


A total ban on handgun ownership in Canada, exempting only police and security professionals, would enjoy significant support among Canadians, according to a new survey by Nanos Research.

The survey conducted for CTV News found that 48 per cent of Canadians would support such a ban, while another 19 per cent would somewhat support it.

Twenty-one per cent of respondents said they would oppose a ban, and another 10 per cent said they would somewhat oppose it. Three per cent said they were unsure about their opinion.



Politicians in two major cities have recently asked the federal government to implement some form of a handgun ban.

Toronto city councillors asked for permission to ban the sale of handguns and ammunition within city limits in July following a mass shooting that left two people dead and 12 others injured. Ontario Premier Doug Ford has opposed the request, saying it would unfairly penalize responsible gun owners.

Councillors in Montreal took things a step further, requesting a nationwide ban on handguns and assault rifles.

It is believed that an illegally acquired gun was used in the Toronto mass shooting on Danforth Avenue. The gun used in a shooting in Fredericton, N.B., last month was legally obtainable, and the suspect in that shooting had a valid licence to obtain it.

The Nanos survey found that a handgun ban was supported or somewhat supported most strongly in Quebec (77 per cent) and least supported in the Prairies (55 per cent).

Older respondents were more likely to support or somewhat support a handgun ban than younger ones. Women were significantly more likely to be in favour a ban, at nearly 75 per cent compared to 59 per cent for men.

As for other ideas floated to potentially address gun violence, 34 per cent of respondents said they would support increasing police funding to combat gun crime. Another 38 per cent said they would somewhat support that idea.

This is the approach the Ontario government has taken, with Ford recently announcing $25 million in new funding for police and court services in Toronto, all of which is to be used combating guns and gangs.

Respondents were also asked whether they felt spending more money on policing, mental health advocacy and education would be a more effective way of reducing gun crimes than implementing harsher penalties and other criminal justice reforms. The results were nearly split, with 49 per cent of respondents – including the majority of respondents who are female, 18 to 34 years old or from Quebec – selecting the first option and 43 per cent preferring the latter.

Fourteen per cent of respondents said recent mass shootings and other “gun related” events in Canada have made them less willing to go to crowded public areas, while 80 per cent said gun incidents did not make a difference for them.

Police-reported violent crime involving firearms has been increasing since 2013, according to Statistics Canada -- although it’s still down from 2009.

Gun crime

Meanwhile, the number of homicides committed using guns has surpassed the number involving stabbings.

Homicide methods

Survey methodology

These observations are based on a hybrid telephone and online random survey of 1,000 Canadians, 18 years of age or older, between Aug. 25 and Aug. 27, 2018 as part of an omnibus survey. Participants were randomly recruited by telephone using live agents and administered a survey online.

The margin of error for a random survey of 1,000 Canadians is plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

This study was commissioned by CTV News and the research was conducted by Nanos Research.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/handgun-ban-supported-by-majority-of-canadians-nanos-survey-1.4077763
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( the head of the Toronto police union is warning a hand gun ban would have no impact on the criminal element in Toronto and would not provide any reasons for a potential killer to not commit a crime , )


Handgun ban would have 'no impact,' police union head warns


Federal government tasked new minister to examine a ban on handguns


Elise von Scheel · CBC News · Posted: Sep 03, 2018 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 4 hours ago


Handguns are increasingly being traced to homicides in Canada, according to 2016 data from Statistics Canada. (Robert Short/CBC)


Toronto and Montreal city councils have called for it, Toronto's mayor has demanded it, the federal government is examining it, but the head of Toronto's police union says a handgun ban won't stop shootings.

After a string of gun-related deaths and injuries in Toronto this summer, the city called on Ottawa to ban the sale of handguns in the city and asked the province to halt the sale of handgun ammunition. Montreal made a similar plea soon after, calling for a nationwide end to private ownership of handguns and assault weapons.


In the following weeks, federal officials avoided giving a straight answer on whether that ask was in the government's plans — only saying they would "consider" looking into a gun ban.

Bill Blair, the new minister of organized crime reduction, told CBC News the Liberals were open to exploring all options, but stopped short of revealing what that list of possibilities included.


Then at the end of August, a section on a handgun ban appeared in Blair's mandate letter.

"You should lead an examination of a full ban on handguns and assault weapons in Canada, while not impeding the lawful use of firearms by Canadians," it read.

That passage has Toronto Mayor John Tory celebrating, but not everyone is praising the move.

"There's no way in my world or any world I know that this would have an impact on somebody who's going to go out and buy an illegal gun and use it to kill another person or shoot another person," Mike McCormack, the president of the Toronto Police Association, said Friday.


There's no way in my world or any world I know that this would have an impact on somebody who's going to go out and buy an illegal gun and use it to kill another person or shoot another person.

- Mike McCormack, Toronto Police Association president

"It really has no impact on the psyche of a gunman."

The intention is noble, he added, but it's "A notional gesture at best."

Instead, McCormack would rather see more resources poured into policing and social services.

He said his years of experience in policing have taught him something about gun crime — individuals who steal, sell or use guns illegally are already facing mountains of jail time, so they're unfazed by one more law that condemns their actions.

Shootings have been on the rise for the past few years in Canada, and in 2016 more people were killed by guns than by knives.

The majority of Canadians don't meet requirements to legally own a handgun. Currently, licences for those types of firearms are restricted to collectors, target shooters and those whose employment might require them to own a handgun.

Handgun crime on the rise

Handguns, specifically, are at the heart of the country's gun statistics.

There were 130 homicides committed with a handgun in 2016, according to a recent Statistics Canada report — the highest number in more than a decade.

Handguns accounted for 21 per cent of the total homicides that year and more than half of shooting homicides.

Half of all firearms used for crimes were legally obtained in Canada and then resold illegally, according to Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders.

The government has repeatedly acknowledged gun violence is not a one-solution problem. Even examining a handgun/assault weapons ban will take time and careful consideration.


A series of deadly shootings in Toronto have shaken the city. The mayor, John Tory, is now proposing banning the personal ownership of handguns. We take a look at whether a handgun ban is the answer to help make streets safer. 9:55

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale warned earlier this summer that further gun laws would require "significant remodelling of the Criminal Code."

Even if the implementation is slow and lacklustre, Toronto's Mayor Tory wants to see a ban in place.

"If it's going to help even a little bit to stop one death from occurring in this city or one shooting, then to me it's a step that's worth the consideration that Minister Blair has been asked to give to it," he said.

But McCormack says studying and passing a handgun ban diverts resources away from other answers.

"It's a more complex issue and people are just looking for an easy fix," he said

"It's not just saying a full gun ban is going to make this magic panacea. It's a much more complex problem that really requires an honest dialogue."

New gun legislation already in the works

In response to this criticism that a ban will be ineffective, a spokesperson from Blair's office said they remain committed to examining the option of a handgun/assault weapon ban.

"People are very concerned about gun violence. They want and expect their government to take effective measures," they said in a statement, pointing to the work they say the government has already done.


Handguns and other firearms are already heavily restricted by the Criminal Code, but critics have long called for a further tightening both on handguns and certain semi-automatic weapons.

This spring, the Trudeau government introduced new firearms legislation, Bill C-71, that would expand background checks to look for warning signs over the entire life history of anyone applying for a gun licence, instead of the current laws which only examine the past five years.

That legislation, if passed, would also require gun retailers to keep inventory and sales records.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/handgun-ban-blair-toronto-police-union-1.4807778?cmp=rss
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2 killed, many injured in Toronto shooting

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