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paulalexdij





Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Location: scotland (ex-longueuil)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: "attempting to defy political reality" Reply with quote

posted below are a couple of snippets from the pre-eminent English-language Quebec political commentator, which ought really to be read in full in the original article :


Maxime Bernier is attempting to defy political reality
By Chantal Hébert Star Columnist
Fri., Aug. 24, 2018
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/08/24/maxime-bernier-is-attempting-to-defy-political-reality.html



If sober minds prevail
, Justin Trudeau’s Liberals will refrain from uncorking the champagne just yet over Maxime Bernier’s bid to create a competing conservative party.

The notion that the Beauce MP is about to pave the way to four more Liberal years in power by splitting the conservative vote in next year’s election presumes that Bernier will succeed where the likes of Preston Manning among others initially failed.

If recent Canadian history teaches anything, it is that setting up a national breakaway party and leading it to a position of significant electoral influence is easier said than done. It has yet to be achieved in less than a single year.


...
<very long 'snip' well worth reading in full>
...


It is not a given that he has the stamina to see his project through. It is harder to line up electoral ducks than those involved in winning a leadership campaign and, if his failed bid for the CPC prize (including the loss of his Beauce riding to an out-of-province rival) revealed anything, it is that Bernier has a short organizational attention span.


Chantal Hébert is a columnist based in Ottawa covering politics. Follow her on Twitter: @ChantalHbert
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/08/24/maxime-bernier-is-attempting-to-defy-political-reality.htm


(ps. all emphases and italicisations are entirely my own).
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6019
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mme Hebert has a very high bar for success. The chances of Bernier achieving power are imperceivably small, therefore his move is a loser.

Eric Grenier has a similar prediction. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-bernier-new-party-election-politics-1.4796682

There is another standard of success -- preventing your opponent from winning!

I have already outlined some of the ways that I think Scheer brought this upon himself.

What appals me most is the idea that a democratic political party is a command-and-control structure. Scheer is treating it this wayl It seems to me that the most coherent explanation is that Scheer, having taken money from the milk cartel, is purposively taking a role in erase Bernier from the party. And it is only part of a purge, one that saw other leadership rivals like Kelly Leitch cashiered.

If you were Bernier, and saw this in the papers a week before the national convention, what would you think?

Quote:
Andrew Scheer joins caucus members in condemning Bernier's 'identity politics'
'He's just poking us in the eye for no reason,' Conservative Sen. Salma Ataullahjan tells CBC

John Paul Tasker · CBC News · Posted: Aug 15, 2018 6:32 PM ET | Last Updated: August 16

Maxime Bernier received an official rebuke from his boss, Conservative Party Leader Andrew Scheer, and a broadside from a Pakistani-Canadian Conservative senator today as the party moved to distance itself from the former leadership contender's opinions on multiculturalism on the eve of its national convention.

Scheer pointed out in a statement issued this evening that Bernier "holds no official role in caucus and does not speak for the Conservative Party of Canada on any issue."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pakistani-canadian-senator-maxime-bernier-tweet-1.4786506


Trust me, this was orchestrated by the leadership. I think the leadership was going to offer up a blood sacrifice to the Milk Cartel. (Speaking symbolically, of course.)

Why? Why expel Bernier rather than giving him the job of winning seats in Quebec? Why not give him a place in the party, and treat him as an asset? (He possibly got more 'votes' but fewer 'points' than Scheer.) Why treat him as a pariah?

But I repeat myself.

Bernier left the Conservative Party to avoid being expelled from it. He has been forced to carry on his struggle outside the party. His success will be measured by his ability to prevent the Conservatives from winning. That's sad, but that's how political power works.

It will mean Conservatives have to deal with his and his supporters if they want power.

This may come to nothing in the short term, but it's the only play left for Bernier, and like it or not, Bernier has enough jam to cost the Conservatives power. He will scupper Conservative prospects in Quebec ... my bet.

=========================

The biggest party in the land is the party of the non-voters. It is certainly 30% of the electorate. All over the West, this party is getting stirred. They feel dispossessed. They want 'reasonable accommodation' rather than the one-sidedness of multiculturalism, and the required uniformity of thought of the 'diversity crowd. And they want a dynamic economy.

Gun control is the furthest thing from their minds.

That is what to watch for. Bernier will take a slice out of the Conservative Party -- maybe 5% -- and others simply won't vote. He might cut into other parties as well. But the key thing is his appeal to the non-participating. There is a big constituency out there that isn't too comfortable with endless Moslem immigration, for example, and others who just generally resent their concerns being stifled.

Vilify these people as you will ... they are out there and they have a case. They deserve to be heard. That's what Bernier gives voice to. His success will now be measured by his ability to project these issues into the national (or Quebec) political conversation.
queenmandy85





Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Saskatoon

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

During the great Flag debate, John Diefenbaker spoke for the large minority who wanted to retain the Red Ensign. He spoke for me. He went into that debate knowing that it would be the issue that would end his leadership but he felt he had a duty. That minority deserved to be heard.
Bernier, has presented an opportunity for that group of voters who oppose supply management and multiculturalism to have their say.
I have stated my views on Max and will not reiterate them, but it will be a test for these issues. If Bernier wins the 2019 election, he will have shown he was right.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6019
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why should these issues be stifled systematically, as a form of bigotry? Why can't policy alternatives be debated within the party? They had a session on abortion, for Gawd's sake -- something they have no intention of doing anything about.

The very fact that supply-management gets a politician demonized illustrates the level of orthodoxy being imposed.

There are certainly some people who harbour negative feelings about other ethnic groups, but it's rare on the ground. True white supremacist groups are so rare in Canada that the last time we heard about them it turned out that the RCMP spy had shown them how to use answering machine technology to spread their message!

You can talk about immigration without being a racist! The most rational discussion about immigration will lead to people foaming over and -- these days -- feeling entitled to drive you from your platform. Anyone who takes a public stand about Moslem immigration risks being accused of a hate crime.

And not just about immigration. It's worse if you challenge the new notions being implemented in the public sector has to do with gender.

If you don't fall in line, you could lose your job.

There can't be any public negotiation. I don't expect that the consensus will come down where I am, by the way, but I recognize that the society works better if the basic structures are based on shared understandings and mutual consent. If it isn't that, it is some level of social coercion.

This isn't about supply management -- that's only where the conflict has emerged. The conflict has to do with the social engineering the state is performing on its people. It's about the imposition of "social justice" concepts on us, and their extra-judicial back-up, the Human Rights apparatus.

Bernier is a 'libertarian' because he wants to nip back all this governmental overreach. We have forgotten that the government is supposed to serve the people. We are in danger of thinking that have to manage the peoplem, which is a very different thing.
paulalexdij





Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Location: scotland (ex-longueuil)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

* Bernier himself said his new party would win the next election !?

* Certainly issues need to be discussed within the party, but starting public threads on twitter is not an appropriate way to do it. This whole affair is not about issues, but about manners.

* If one reads the article at the link provided (without even having to read any commentary en francais), one would realise that there is zero evidence that the man has been an asset to the party in quebec -- in fact the reverse is true.

* If the goal now was to prevent the party winning election, one can hardly imagine a more dramatic way of pursuing that aim. Nevertheless in this too he is unlikely to be successful, even though it is still possible that he may win re-election in his own seat.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/08/24/maxime-bernier-is-attempting-to-defy-political-reality.html
Bugs





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Posts: 6019
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A short little video illustrating Andrew Scheer's impact on the public ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbHt80blOj0

I can't judge Bernier's stature in Quebec, so let's just say he was English-speaking Canada's favourite Quebec Conservative ...
Bugs





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Posts: 6019
Reputation: 290.4
votes: 8

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a revealing little bit of video because it is a compilation of what the Letterkenny people are saying about the Conservative Party after the split. Each of these snippets is from a separate video where the Canadians react to the bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WlH3wZ4AHc

I imagine there are those out there who see these faces, and listen to those accents and cringe a bit. North Torontonians aren't going to listen to these people, let alone follow them. But they don't understand -- they need their energy.

This is a big part of your base, Conservatives, at least the most active part of it. These are the people who create the wealth and do the physical stuff. Most important -- they seem highly attracted to Bernier and repelled by Scheer.

And, by the way, are you going to tell me there's no Letterkenny-types in Quebec? Or in Cape Breton? No, no. you're not going to tell me that!
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you enlighten me (us?) on what a 'letterkenny' type person is?
Honest question. I know the show, sort of, but cannot reference it in this case.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6019
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votes: 8

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow your lack of understanding doesn't surprise me.
Toronto Centre





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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that the answer?
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wouldn't understand anyway.

I am not trying to persuade you of anything. It's not worth the keystrokes. This has to do with Conservative Party politics and not something that people like yourself have an input into. We'll cue you when it's time for your schtick.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1219
Reputation: 120.6
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Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
You wouldn't understand anyway.

Why is that? Because you dont know how to explain it?

Im asking , thats all.
Quote:


I am not trying to persuade you of anything.

A meaning of a word and context is not a persuasion of any kind.
Quote:

This has to do with Conservative Party politics and not something that people like yourself have an input into.

Well...I happen to agree with most here about Bernier. To sum up. he took his ball and went home to cry to his mommy.
Quote:

We'll cue you when it's time for your schtick. <sic>


Best to spell correctly when trying to be smarmy.

Anyhow, just asking what the word Letterkenny means. Anyone else know? Bugs seems not to know.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6019
Reputation: 290.4
votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good video where the Power Play talking heads look at the up-side of Bernier's chances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75QAzrPsrSE

Note that none of them see Bernier as significant simply because he is a Quebecois who is probably English-Canada's favourite spokesperson/politician right now. Nor do they see him as blighted in Quebec because of the opposition of the milk cartel. They are obviously intelligent and aware people in other respects.

The biggest thing they don't see is that all the existing party leaders seem to be decaying 'before our eyes, like zombies hanging on to your door handle as you roll up the windows and gun the engine ... their body parts falling off with the stress ...

That said, they have interesting things to say about what is being said where the professional politicians hang out Some MPs (it is rumoured) are thiking of joining him, and some experienced candidates willing to run.

It gets more plausible all the time. But I wonder if they are really trying to fom a new party as a long-term prospect, or is it a way of challenging the Conservative Party to come to terms quickly?

Imagine an election in 14 months, a long time now that the lustre has worn off them all. The trade issue ... Bernier is the only one in a position to speak freely. The pipeline issue ... I dunno how he or Scheer handles that, but it will be there for a few months ... as a prelude to an election, maybe as bad as the Duffy trial as a campaign overture.

The election could quite realistically force a minority government, with Bernier being the man with the balance of power. And then they talk.
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"attempting to defy political reality"

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