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Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's heartwarming to know that others out there see this possibility.

I don't mean to dismiss the importance of the local candidate. Often, he/she brings the extra bit of support that takes them to victory. But the party brand brings a lot of votes, too. And at the national level, we have to take care of the brand.

What I see, sadly, is an inertia, a fear of grasping the nettle. We have a political culture that is more involved in sneaking things past the people than in arousing them to a challenge. The Conservative brand ought to be about taking on the challenge at lower levels of government, or in the community itself.

What the social engineers don't understand is that challenges are what turns people who bought into a housing development into a community. It's not government services. Challenges compel people to cooperate and compete and steal ideas, and all of that -- but that web of practical relationships makes the community a real thing.

Our national challenge is to make the welfare state sustainable. That's the truth. The problem is that Conservatives don't see that there are ways of cutting benefits and enriching the community.

In the present context, the so-called trade war, the public is having the 'story' set up as "giving up" something, and submitting to a bully. But it amounts to an otherwise illegal restraint on trade on milk and poultry products.

This whole discussion of tariffs being imposed on Canadian goods... no, it's a tax imposed on Americans! And we retaliate by imposing a tax on Canadian citizens. How can this be packaged up and sold as "standing up to a bully"? Only if we aren't doing our job ... well, it's not my job, but jeez ...

I somehow feel you "get it" too. I indulge myself that there are others who prefer to remain silent. I am far from sure I am right ... except it seems like the best direction to move in. What, after all, is the other choice? It would be good to have a wider honest discussion.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
It's heartwarming to know that others out there see this possibility.

I don't mean to dismiss the importance of the local candidate. Often, he/she brings the extra bit of support that takes them to victory. But the party brand brings a lot of votes, too. And at the national level, we have to take care of the brand.


Agreed.
The brand helps you sweep into regions, however in Quebec's case I am a firm believer in order to grow the message you need to have "feet on the street" to convey that message.

Having Michel Gauthier, Lawrence Cannon, Gérard Deltell, and others on the ground helping to sell a message of a single vision rather than what is historically perceived to be a "Western" vision in the Province is invaluable.

You take care of the message and the brand should benefit.

Bugs wrote:
Our national challenge is to make the welfare state sustainable. That's the truth. The problem is that Conservatives don't see that there are ways of cutting benefits and enriching the community.


The Tories lack control of the message;
Far too many Canadians seem to think that to maintain healthcare, education, law enforcement, and most social services that the government NEEDS to deficit spend.

The Federal Government spent 12% of the budget in 2017 on Healthcare Transfers;
Its largely a Provincial Issue, but it doesn't stop the Federal Government from implying that spending cuts would harm healthcare.

If we look at all the social programs we hold dear as Canadians (and National Defense) and break it down as a portion of the budget if you include:

All transfer payments (Healthcare, Social, Equalization all of it), Old Age Security and the Guaranteed Income Supplement (Which is the Federal Governments Single Largest Expense), Employment Insurance, Children Benefits, and National Defense and we find ourselves @ 66% of the budget.

Toss in another 8% that we are paying on Interest on the Federal debt and we get up to 74% of the budget making up the majority of programs that Canadians are concerned will be cut when they hear about balanced budgets and fiscal prudence.

https://www.budget.gc.ca/2017/docs/plan/anx-01-en.html#Toc477707546

Its possible to reduce spending significantly while improving core programs like healthcare, the Tories just do a bad job discussing the other quarter of the budget that doesn't include any of those things.

The Tories largest failing is allowing this nonsensical notion that the Government isn't spending money on anything other than the bare essentials and that somehow even on record revenue the Government cannot work within its means because it lacks the funding, whereas in reality they have increase spending at a level that outpaces record growth in revenue.

Government has a spending problem, not a revenue one
And Canadians of all economic stripes are paying far too much in taxes to support programs most people would be surprised to know existed which make up a significant amount of spending every year.

Bugs wrote:

In the present context, the so-called trade war, the public is having the 'story' set up as "giving up" something, and submitting to a bully. But it amounts to an otherwise illegal restraint on trade on milk and poultry products.


Trade Wars and Sabre rattling with the US is bad for the Canadian Economy;
Yet usually very good for the Liberals politically over the last few decades.

They have convinced voters they are the defenders of Canadian Virtue in the face of this big bad American President, however its their historic policies that have got us here.

If you don't want to be under the thumb of the Americans;
Cool

Then approve pipelines that allow one our greatest resources to get to ports on both side of the country so it can sold to the highest bidder not the closest one.

Be first in line with the UK to discuss trade and another destination for Canadian Goods.

Pick of the mantle from the last guys with Japan, Singapore, and India and work toward more market access.

The Liberals stance verbally on the US Vs their stance policy wise couldn't be more in contrast with each other. One is a lot of tough talk and the other is one that keeps us beholden to the US Economy.

They say politically you can't play both side of the coin, however in this case they have successfully done so for decades.

Leading by sound-bytes is not leadership;
Its Electioneering at the expense of the Economy.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( mulcair is predicting a tough fight in his former ridign of Outremont once the by election is called , considering the ndp don't even have a candidate yet that would seem to be very true , I personally suspect the liberals will call the by election very soon after mulcair officially leaves , they won't let a seat that that sit empty for long if they feel they can win it back rather easily )


Tom Mulcair's parting words to NDP: party should be 'worried' about the future



Ex-leader says Quebec byelection results show need for far more groundwork before 2019 election


Katharine Starr · CBC News · Posted: Jun 20, 2018 6:45 PM ET | Last Updated: June 20



Tom Mulcair in the House of Commons on Tuesday, October 25, 2016. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)


77 comments


Outgoing NDP MP and former party leader Tom Mulcair is wrapping up his political career with some words of warning for his party after its disappointing third-place finish in a Quebec by-election:

Start worrying now.

"I am worried about a score like that, what it means for the future, no doubt," Mulcair told host Vassy Kapelos on CBC News Network's Power & Politics.

The NDP vote suffered an almost total collapse in the Chicoutimi-Le Fjord, Que. byelection on June 18. The party pulled just 8.7 per cent of the vote — after winning the riding with 37.7 per cent in 2011 and narrowly losing in 2015 with 29.7 per cent of the vote.


Mulcair called the result "an outward sign that there's still a lot of things that have to be done differently" by the party before the 2019 federal election.

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh shares his predecessor's concerns; this week he called the results "disappointing" but added he believes last year's NDP leadership race was a factor in this week's by-election result.

"We had a period of time where we had a leadership race, and that takes away from your ability to have a clear leadership in directing the work," Singh said.

Singh 'does have a great personality'

In his interview with Power & Politics, Mulcair credited the NDP's dominance in Quebec in 2011 to "five years of tireless work across the province" and suggested the party — and specifically Singh — need to make the same sort of effort now.


"Quebecers need something concrete. Not something vague": Former NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair tells Power & Politics after a disappointing byelection result. 7:30

"He does have a great personality and he does connect well with people, but it's a question of time spent," said Mulcair.

"Quebeckers need something concrete and not something that's sent in from another place."

Singh currently does not hold a seat in the House of Commons.

Mulcair added that while the NDP still has more federal seats in Quebec than the Conservatives and Bloc Quebecois, "more work on the fundraising front" will be required ahead of 2019.

But first, there will be a byelection in his own riding of Outremont in Montreal, where Mulcair is predicting a "tough fight" once he departs in a few weeks.

"It's a very diverse riding and you've got to be able to connect in all those different areas," he said. "I'm going on to [teach] university and will be taking a little bit of a back seat, but it doesn't mean I won't be following with great interest."

Mulcair will start working as a visiting professor in the political science department at Université de Montréal this summer.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tom-mulcair-ndp-quebec-1.4714919
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One wonders at the 'magical thinking' of those who draw salaries for 'managing' political campaigns. They actually think that -- if they 'do things differently' this time -- they can bring home the seat. It's what the do, during a campaign, that counts.

But their political opportunity has been closed. There was a moment when Quebeckers were willing to give 'the Jack Layton approach a try ... but that moment has passed. The NDP pulled a 'bait and switch' move and replaced the Chaplineque Layton with the forbidding Mulcair ... but the moving finger had moved on.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
One wonders at the 'magical thinking' of those who draw salaries for 'managing' political campaigns. They actually think that -- if they 'do things differently' this time -- they can bring home the seat. It's what the do, during a campaign, that counts.

But their political opportunity has been closed. There was a moment when Quebeckers were willing to give 'the Jack Layton approach a try ... but that moment has passed. The NDP pulled a 'bait and switch' move and replaced the Chaplineque Layton with the forbidding Mulcair ... but the moving finger had moved on.


it would appear the ndp's window of opportunity in quebec is closing if not already closed

if polling doesn't improve there and no sign that is happening , the next election will only be about trying to hold on to as many of the 15 seats they can still win , whatever incumbents have enough personal appeal and name recognition to hold there seats

also don't expect the liberals to leave Outremont vacant for 6 months like we've seen in alberta or Chicoutimi seats, this by election will happen quickly if the liberals think they can win the seat back , they already have a candidate nominated in odd move as mp yet to formally resign , a sign the by election will take place soon after mulcair leaves
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Quebec Liberal mp Denis Lemieux resigns seat

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