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Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1212
Reputation: 120.4
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
Sunway Restaurant owners call it a career

No surprise. Anytime I passed by it was only a few cars patronizing the joint. I never stopped there in my life that I recall.

Most of those places suffer from location issues. All of them south of G-hurst suffer because the Tims location takes all the business. People coming down #11 either want coffee or nothing.
If more is wanted they can pull off at locales B-bridge, HUntsville Ghurst and the like.

The place (Sunway) is too close to those and one you get moving most dont want to to stop.

They all suffer this fate. Look at Webers , perfect stopping place, enough distance out of TO to finally stop and stretch the legs and not too close to most cottages to forego the stop.
Add in cache and voila...you have a multi million dollar gold mine. ( and that place makes millions !)

Watch for the Cottage Store just south of G-hurst to close soon too. No one is stopping there now.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1212
Reputation: 120.4
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
For the gentle reader ... there's different ways you can use the roads. Bigger road systems may mean most loads get through a bit faster, but the volume of traffic may not increase that much or quickly enough to justify the expense.

If one can turn around the loss of $3.3 BILLION by having better roads in the GTA then the cost is moot as it will benefit all.
Quote:

Nowhere in this process are the interests of the ordinary Ontarian taken into account.

Except every day they are. So much for that.
Quote:
It's seen as a tax on commerce and the roads are being proposed and waved through as the last attempts of the old regime to have their version of reality reproduced on the material plane.

Oh not at all.

The roads in the province are paid for by commuters, drivers via licence fees , gas tax, tolls... to the tune of 90% of the costs.
So the users actually pay for the roads.
The GTA users in fact pay $1BILLION more than is used , thus subsidising the rest of the province. No problem there.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/ontario-drivers-paying-up-to-90-per-cent-of-road-costs-study-reveals/article14901607/


Quote:

Roads are often used as a development tool, but they can be overbuilt.

Where? When? Id like to see for myself.

Quote:

There are two philosophies at war here. TC's view could be summed up as "Build a road and they will come ... and generate taxes in the future".

Only if on failed to understand could that be the case
So congrats...you failed.

Nowhere did I suggest or say that build them they will come. The roads, every single one of them discussed , exists already, but needs improvements.

Not hard to follow along.
Quote:
The view I suggest is "Pave where they have worn a path so that they go deeper towards their destination as free people will.." It's different.

So.......... in other words,

Pave where they wore a path, like ....um....an existing road or highway?

Yea, thats different. :roll:
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6005
Reputation: 290
votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which misses RCO's main point ... that is, that it is a "spend-it before-the-new-guys-get-in" planning, not the rational stuff that TC implies.

We'd like to see a little evidence -- or at least the evidence TC and his happy band base their decisions on. Come on, be useful for a change!
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1212
Reputation: 120.4
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Which misses RCO's main point ... that is, that it is a "spend-it before-the-new-guys-get-in" planning, not the rational stuff that TC implies.

The current car owners provide the funds, every day , every year.
Its there....and needs to be spent before things get worse.

Pretty easy to follow.
Quote:

We'd like to see a little evidence -- or at least the evidence TC and his happy band base their decisions on. Come on, be useful for a change!

'Useful' would be having the ability to read the link that is evidence on what I wrote.

So, you are not useful.

Glad to know.LOL I have to laugh when you make a fool of yourself.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6005
Reputation: 290
votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does TC actually mean to suggest that the PR releases of his own department are the basis of decisions about where roads will go and how big they ought to be?

It isn't a surprise to me that road taxes are far from a surplus of what is required to maintain the existing roads. It leaves the bureau-rats the pleasant job of spending the money while muttering Richard Florida stuff about the future.

When was the last gas tax increase, does TC know that?

TC might be surprised to know that one-eggers' (or whatever he called me) have internet connections and can count. I was never so daft as to think the government had any money of its own that it could use to build roads so we wouldn't have to pay. I may be old, and I may be white, and I may even be male, but I don't think we should let TC off so easily. He looks like a laughing jackass.

Apparently, he wants us to believe that they use fairy-dust to help them visualize the future.

===========================

For those who are interested, the Ontario government added an additional cent a liter every year since 2014 so they would have the money to relieve traffic in Gravenhurst? No, in Toronto, the rest of the province is a dependency of Toronto ... That the attitude. In fact, they cost the drivers of Ontario $0.14/liter, and that's probably at least 3 cents a liter more than it used to be. The feds take a dime's out of the price and they they charge you HST on those taxes, so that about 28 cents of the cost of your fuel is taxes. And TC and his gang have to figure out how to spend it.


There are about 16 billion liters of gasoline sold in Ontario a year.


Last edited by Bugs on Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 1212
Reputation: 120.4
votes: 4
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gone total fucking loony have you?
Bugs wrote:
Does TC actually mean to suggest that the PR releases of his own department are the basis of decisions about where roads will go and how big they ought to be?

Huh? What PR release? What dept?

Quote:
It isn't a surprise to me that road taxes are far from a surplus of what is required to maintain the existing roads.

Upwards of 90% paid.....gots a problem with that?
When was the last gas tax increase, does TC know that? [/quote]
Nope.

Relevance? Probably none but Ill give you a shot.
Quote:

TC might be surprised to know that one-eggers' (or whatever he called me)

Ham and egger. Google it . It fits.
Quote:
have internet connections and can count. I was never so daft as to think the government had any money of its own that it could use to build roads so we wouldn't have to pay. I may be old, and I may be white, and I may even be male, but I don't think we should let TC off so easily. He looks like a laughing jackass.

Speaking of laughing jackass....oh man...sorry but yes, the govt has the money we paid in gas taxes road tolls etc to use to build and improve roads.
Its what we elect them to do.

Laughing jackass! LOL.


Quote:

For those who are interested, the Ontario government added an additional cent a liter every year since 2014 so they would have the money to relieve traffic in Gravenhurst? No, in Toronto, the rest of the province is a dependency of Toronto ... That the attitude. In fact, they cost the drivers of Ontario $0.14/liter, and that's probably at least 3 cents a liter more than it used to be. The feds take a dime's out of the price and they they charge you HST on those taxes, so that about 28 cents of the cost of your fuel is taxes. And TC and his gang have to figure out how to spend it.


Um yeah.... thats always how it worked.

And for the record, the province is a dependant of Toronto. You get what you get in part to the largesse of the citizens in paying taxes. Including your little burg down east.

New at this eh ham and egger?

You fit that description very well.

Thanks for playing . Next time might be better.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 6005
Reputation: 290
votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah ... are these the silly twirps that make our decisions for us?

TC doesn't understand the difference between creating wealth and taxing wealth. In the first case, wealth is created by creating commodities the public are willing to pay for. It is new wealth in the sense that it didn't exist before. It works only because it satisfies some kind of need, even if it's only for art candles. But it also creates permanent wealth in the form of buildings and such. And assets that can serve as collateral can create credit.

Taxing wealth diminishes wealth. It is an act of consumption. Taxes take money out of the hands of the people who consume in the market economy. Put differently, taxes reduce the size of the market. The money that the individuals would have available to spent on other things isn't there.

In some cases -- roads being one of them -- the taxes are used as a development tool because the circulation of goods is aided materially. If the people of a community decide to have an old dirt road paved, it can carry more traffic faster. If the traffic is not there, the existence of the road will attract traffic. It connects people to bigger markets. But if that road is double-laned prematurely, it doesn't make much difference. It may take years for the traffic patterns to change. If it is double-laned at the right time, it is a tremendous spur to growth, but the point is the growth in capacity doesn't do that much good if the enterprise isn't there in the first place.

And that certainly goes when adding lanes to what is already a super-highway.

Where is the saturation point? When does the law of diminishing returns kick in? TC acts as if these aren't questions . As if there is no possibility, in Kathleen Wynne's Ontario, that they aren't paying back their friends with contracts? I don't even mean that as the usual innuendo about this government -- it's probably true of most governments when they come to the end of their run and they know it.

The gentle reader should come away from this with an insight into the attitudes of a civil servant. They should see how there isn't a weighing of the options. When does the city-state start engineering a different solution to the transportation problem? When highways go from 10 lanes to 12? to 14?

When I drive in from my place, three hours outside Toronto, my car is a great inconvenience and expense. Parking. Traffic. Moving the car. If I lived in Toronto, you'd have a street parking permit, but for an outsider, your car becomes a hostage. I am constantly frustrated. Bicycles are faster. The system is reaching an overload point, and TC's gang are expanding roads into a place where a previous mayor, Mayor Miller, was creating choke points to stop traffic!

It's an out-of-control spending machine staffed by nerds and implementing the dream world of a 13-year-old girl. The whole system has gone off the rails. TC is part of that system, and says -- ."oh, no ... we build roads and wealth comes knocking!" Sorry, but I was looking for the evidence that is based on, not a newspaper article that was not news, but the work of PR agents.
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