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RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Wynne to open the pre election spending floodgates ? Reply with quote

( Ontario originally planned to balance the books this year but now were suddenly hearing there is going to be at least an $8 billion dollar deficit and increased spending before the election and this year , looks like wynne is desperate and decided to open the floodgates and spend money on any project in any liberal riding they feel they can still win )


Ontario is going back into deficit in a pre-election budget


FRED CHARTRAND/THE CANADIAN PRESS



Justin Giovannetti


Published March 7, 2018

Updated 5 hours ago



Ontario's Finance Minister says his province is going back into deficit in a pre-election budget he will table on March 28.

Speaking to a business crowd in downtown Toronto, Charles Sousa says the province will run a deficit of up to $8-billion, breaking a key promise by the Liberal government to balance the books.

"We will be running a deficit, starting next year at less than one per cent of GDP. Our budget will have a clear path to track back to balance. But let's be clear, we are making this choice deliberately," Mr. Sousa said.


Mr. Sousa could not tell reporters after his speech how large the deficit will be or when he expects Ontario's books to be balanced again. While the Finance Minister was able to balance last year's budget, the first in a decade where the province posted a surplus, he said new money now had to be directed at health-care and child-care.

The deficit comes at a time when Ontario's economic engine has been roaring. GDP growth in 2017 was at a seven-year high according to RBC Bank, and is expected to top two per cent this year. Unemployment is also near its lowest level in decades. Mr. Sousa said the province was using the good economic times to open the spending taps. "We are choosing to put our strengthened fiscal position to work to address our priorities," he said.


With the risk of a collapse in the North America free-trade agreement, a growing number of "Buy American" bills passing state legislatures and the promise of tariffs on steel and aluminum by U.S. President Donald Trump, Mr. Sousa said the budget was based on "prudent" projections due to significant economic risks in the future.

To the opposition, the announcement of a deficit budget is seen as an attempt to buy votes in the June election. With Premier Kathleen Wynne looking to keep her Liberal party in power, the budget is a "final, last-ditch ploy to win the next election," according to Progressive Conservative finance critic Lisa MacLeod.

"After promising a balanced budget for years to come, the Wynne Liberals are already changing their tune and plunging the province back into deficit. They can't be trusted to keep their word," she said.

New Democrat John Vanthof said that deficit promise was the sign of an "old, tired government." Ontario's NDP has yet to release its election platform and Mr. Vanthof would not say whether the party will promise to table a balanced budget.

Mr. Sousa said the spring budget will set up a contrast with the province's Tory opposition, which is currently embroiled in a leadership contest. The leading candidates to take over the party have faced criticism for the budget plans they have teased so far, which include tax cuts, spending increases and the promise of finding billions in wasteful spending. Mr. Sousa said the Tory plans could plunge the province into a deficit of as much as $16-billion, a number the candidates have disputed.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-is-going-back-into-deficit-in-a-pre-election-budget/article38233950/
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ontario finance minister says budget will not be balanced
.


Shawn Jeffords, The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, March 7, 2018 4:59PM EST



TORONTO -- Ontario's Liberal government is breaking its promise to maintain a balanced budget this year, saying its upcoming fiscal plan will run a deficit in order to fund programs for seniors, women and students ahead of a spring election.

Finance Minister Charles Sousa said Wednesday that the budget will be delivered on March 28.

"I firmly believe you have to invest to create growth," Sousa said in a speech to a Toronto business audience. "You cannot create jobs by beggaring your future prospects. As I have said many times -- balancing the budget is not an end in itself. It is a means to an end. And that end is a stronger Ontario."

Sousa, who will be delivering his sixth budget as finance minister, said the province will run a deficit of less than one per cent of its gross domestic product starting next year but would not confirm a specific figure.

According to the Ministry of Finance, Ontario's gross domestic product sat at $794 billion in 2016, the latest publicly available data. Using those figures, the government's budget deficit could run as high as almost $8 billion.

Last year, the Liberals posted the province's first balanced budget in a decade and had projected balanced books through to 2019-20. As recently as November, in the government's Fall Economic Statement, Sousa said the 2018 budget would be balanced.

The minister said Wednesday that the decision to run a deficit is, in part, a response to challenges the province is facing. He hinted repeatedly that the budget will include measures to help women, students and seniors.

"We have to invest more and that doesn't come cheap," he said. "So here is the choice: ignore these costs of care to stay in balance or use our fiscal room to invest more in mental health, long-term care and child care."

The budget will outline a path to return to balance, Sousa noted.

The minister also suggested the opposition Progressive Conservatives, who have are days away from selecting a new party leader, did not plan to balance the books if they took power after the June election.

"They will cut services, roll back minimum wage and sacrifice those working at the lowest incomes," he said.

Tory finance critic Lisa MacLeod said the upcoming fiscal blueprint amounts to nothing more than a "last-ditch ploy to win the next election."

"This is a government that has no real beliefs other than their own political self-interest," she said. "Now, right before an election, they're cynical and willing to do or say anything to cling to power."

NDP finance critic John Vanthof said the Liberal government's budget is an "election document" and Ontario residents shouldn't be fooled by the spending it's going to pledge.

"An old, tired government like this should not be evaluated on a budget full of promises," he said. "It should be evaluated on its history and where its direction has been. Its direction hasn't been for the ordinary people of this province."


https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ontario-finance-minister-says-budget-will-not-be-balanced-1.3833200
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you think it would 'destroy DeSousa's credibility if he kept the pretence up any further? He has already stretched accounting standards a long way for his party. Besides, who believes it anyway?

I think the electorate's mind is made up, or almost made up. I don't think even the shenanigans in the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario will change their mind. Wynne has got to go, no matter what.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one has to wonder why wynne is doing this ? they had been saying for the last couple of years the budget was soon going to be balanced or at least a very small deficit . what was announced yesterday would seem to indicate all of that was not true


either wynne has decided they need to spend extra money on key areas and ridings before the election and its simply a spending spree

or they want to campaign against the pc's on the basis there going to make cuts , so deciding to spend like crazy so the pc's would have no choice but to campaign against the new spending


another possibility they know there going to lose so spending the money now so the pc's can't or so if the pc's win there isn't enough money left for them to implement campaign promises such as lower taxes or other commitments , that the provinces finances would simply be in such bad shape the pc's wouldn't be able to implement there agenda


but the fact there might now be an $8 billion dollar deficit , its proof none of wynne's new spending commitments were never truly affordable , things like free tuition , free prescription drugs , whatever else she promised I can't recall , all of it was never truly affordable and further plunged Ontario into debt
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last budget likely wasn't actually balanced and if it was it was largely as a result of a one time cash injection from sell off crown assets and a short term boost as a result of the house market and the land transfer tax boon (around 650m)

The likelihood this budget was going to be balanced as always minimum, however the size of the deficit is entirely par for the course with the current government.

An 8b dollar deficit on a potential 140b dollar revenue is still utterly insane given the record revenues and create new means of government revenue generation in place.

If you cant balance the books on this sort of revenue you can't possibly be trusted to do so if revenue stayed stagnant or even retracted for a few years.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
one has to wonder why wynne is doing this ? they had been saying for the last couple of years the budget was soon going to be balanced or at least a very small deficit . what was announced yesterday would seem to indicate all of that was not true

either wynne has decided they need to spend extra money on key areas and ridings before the election and its simply a spending spree

or they want to campaign against the pc's on the basis there going to make cuts , so deciding to spend like crazy so the pc's would have no choice but to campaign against the new spending

another possibility they know there going to lose so spending the money now so the pc's can't or so if the pc's win there isn't enough money left for them to implement campaign promises such as lower taxes or other commitments , that the provinces finances would simply be in such bad shape the pc's wouldn't be able to implement there agenda

but the fact there might now be an $8 billion dollar deficit , its proof none of wynne's new spending commitments were never truly affordable , things like free tuition , free prescription drugs , whatever else she promised I can't recall , all of it was never truly affordable and further plunged Ontario into debt


If I were to guess?
The Liberals will introduce something utterly insane in the budget and dare the PCs to campaign against it.

Universal Dental Care, Universal Pharmacare, a Provincial Daycare Program, or something so grandiose they will be able to use it as an "Us Vs. Them" campaign plank.

The challenge with "little" things is that they can be scrapped;
When Harris came in after 1995 he repealed a significant amount of NDP spending within a few months of office.

Its too late in the game to try and bankrupt government to screw the next guys, because the budget gets tabled and passed in March and the new guys take over in June. Most of the cheques wont even be cut.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could be right about the Liberal approach ... but they have become so obvious to enough people that the tide has simply turned against them.

I could imagine the usurper campaigning on an "there-they-go-again" theme.

If a huge increase in the minimum wage was met with mixed feelings ... it shows you that even the simple folk aren't entirely buying it. And that's money in hand. Are they likely to buy some pie-in-the-sky benefit?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of these posts are wrong per se....

But if the PC's dont get the right person then Wynne has a big chance to repeat, and thats nothing any of us here want.

The wrong choice, easily defeated (IMO) is Doug Ford. His abortion discussion is already doing it.

ETA:After the fact.... LOL...perhaps I should have read those poll numbers in the other thread first.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:

But if the PC's dont get the right person then Wynne has a big chance to repeat, and thats nothing any of us here want.

The wrong choice, easily defeated (IMO) is Doug Ford. His abortion discussion is already doing it.


Ford's path to victory is challenging;

His only path to victory that I see is if he secures somewhere in the 30's in round one and Allen surprises with somewhere in the high single digits which largely transition to Ford as she drops off the ballot in round two.

Beyond that, Elliott supporters seem to have Mulroney as their primary second choice and vice versa which could potentially buoy either one to the win (Think Dion / Kennedy 2006), however if Mulroney drops off after the second round and her support is split for the second choice in theory Ford could win? maybe?

This also all assumes he is in first or second after the first two rounds;
If he isn't and its Elliott and Mulroney after two rounds then its Fords supporters second choice who crown the next leader.
RCO





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:
one has to wonder why wynne is doing this ? they had been saying for the last couple of years the budget was soon going to be balanced or at least a very small deficit . what was announced yesterday would seem to indicate all of that was not true

either wynne has decided they need to spend extra money on key areas and ridings before the election and its simply a spending spree

or they want to campaign against the pc's on the basis there going to make cuts , so deciding to spend like crazy so the pc's would have no choice but to campaign against the new spending

another possibility they know there going to lose so spending the money now so the pc's can't or so if the pc's win there isn't enough money left for them to implement campaign promises such as lower taxes or other commitments , that the provinces finances would simply be in such bad shape the pc's wouldn't be able to implement there agenda

but the fact there might now be an $8 billion dollar deficit , its proof none of wynne's new spending commitments were never truly affordable , things like free tuition , free prescription drugs , whatever else she promised I can't recall , all of it was never truly affordable and further plunged Ontario into debt


If I were to guess?
The Liberals will introduce something utterly insane in the budget and dare the PCs to campaign against it.

Universal Dental Care, Universal Pharmacare, a Provincial Daycare Program, or something so grandiose they will be able to use it as an "Us Vs. Them" campaign plank.

The challenge with "little" things is that they can be scrapped;
When Harris came in after 1995 he repealed a significant amount of NDP spending within a few months of office.

Its too late in the game to try and bankrupt government to screw the next guys, because the budget gets tabled and passed in March and the new guys take over in June. Most of the cheques wont even be cut.



if I were the ndp I'd be worried they were planning to " steal " whatever was in there platform and campaign on it as well , that seems to be the liberal strategy of late

but even if wynne finds a popular social program to run on , not sure it be enough , her government simply isn't popular and been in power way too long


also though they might considering calling an early election soon after the pc vote so the new leader wouldn't have time to prepare but now it looks like there going to ride out whatever time they have left until they must call an election by law for early June
Bugs





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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
None of these posts are wrong per se....

But if the PC's dont get the right person then Wynne has a big chance to repeat, and thats nothing any of us here want.

The wrong choice, easily defeated (IMO) is Doug Ford. His abortion discussion is already doing it.

ETA:After the fact.... LOL...perhaps I should have read those poll numbers in the other thread first.


It would be so much better if you could show your reasons for drawing such a conclusion.

I understand that you are an ardent supporter of a woman's right to kill her unborn children, and that know socially people who counsel abortions. As it stands, you treat it as if opposing abortion is immoral. 'It's a deal-breaker for you. OK, but that's not true of everybody. Most people think that it's abortion that's immoral. Which doesn't mean they want it to be illegal.

And why does it matter to you? You won't be voting for the next leader of the PCs anyway. (Though even you might end up voting PC in this election since the Liberals stink so bad.) That's why I think you are wrong. If you see the Liberal's incompetence and destructiveness enough to think seriously of supporting the dark side, think of how many others do too. And few of them think a dogwhistle on abortion is a deal-breaker.

The people at this convention are picking the next Premier of Ontario, no matter what Kathleen Wynne does. This election is more about getting rid of Kathleen Wynne than it is about popularity and support for any of the PC candidates, including Patrick Brown.

If someone wants to evaluate the candidates, the better question, of course, is what is Doug Ford going to do, vs what Christine Elliott, Caroline Rich-Man's Wife, or Tanya want to do.

Why not vote on that basis, and help give the party some direction?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


It would be so much better if you could show your reasons for drawing such a conclusion.

Oh ok.

Doug Ford. There ya go.
Quote:

I understand that you are an ardent supporter of a woman's right to kill her unborn children,

That sentence of course makes absolutely no sense.
Quote:
Most people think that it's abortion that's immoral. Which doesn't mean they want it to be illegal.

Most people? Say...whats that thing about .." if you could show your reasons for drawing such a conclusion." again?
Quote:

Why not vote on that basis, and help give the party some direction?
Thats the plan all along. When they decide, I will do same on election day.

However , with the PC party out of money, and specifically so if the injunction is granted, there may not be enough support to run a proper election.
The injunction will hurt....bad !
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have clearly missed something?
I wasn't aware the PCs were out of money?

I was of the impression the party had 16m after all debts cleared from the last election as of May 2017 with the numbers adding around 3 - 4m after the new rules in the latter half of the year. The last projection was over 20m in the warchest heading into this year?
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
I have clearly missed something?
I wasn't aware the PCs were out of money?

It was reported earlier today (radio) that if the injunction goes ahead the party will be in a bad way and have less money that the Liberals going forward.

The PB fiasco and now the injunction has cost them dearly.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:


Also though they might considering calling an early election soon after the pc vote so the new leader wouldn't have time to prepare but now it looks like there going to ride out whatever time they have left until they must call an election by law for early June


Its what I would do.
The PCs will select a leader tomorrow and one of the candidates (likely Ford) will challenge the results which could drag the process out till at least April.

If I was the Premier I would introduce the Budget as soon as they are back from March Break, light-speed the passage of the budget, and then declare that a summer election wouldn't allow the majority of Ontario to focus on the importance of the election and dissolve Parliament.

Move forward with the minimum 28 days and have the election on April 24th

"How can you trust the PCs to run this Province when they have run their party this way?"

It likely won't work, but aside from the spent spend budget, its likely her last best hope.
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Wynne to open the pre election spending floodgates ?

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