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Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is obvious is that, in both governments, there is a feeling that they can spend freely -- not quite without restraint, but almost. They seemed to believe, themselves, that you can eliminate poverty by increasing wages.

Either that or they are cynical beyond belief, that there's no price they wouldn't pay, in terms of the provincial and national interest, to stay in power.

It's a matter of choice -- dumb or crooked? Maybe both? (at least in Ontario).
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even think its about believing in anything at this point.
The Economic impact of the wage increase was warned and is now largely being seen, none of this was a surprise and none of it was likely unexpected to the OLP.

There was no logical economic reason to roll out a massive increase January 1st 2018 other than the fact that there is an election on June 7th 2018.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
I don't even think its about believing in anything at this point.
The Economic impact of the wage increase was warned and is now largely being seen, none of this was a surprise and none of it was likely unexpected to the OLP.

There was no logical economic reason to roll out a massive increase January 1st 2018 other than the fact that there is an election on June 7th 2018.



its clear the reason for the increase in Ontario was the 2018 election ,

in alberta it might be more about the ndp wanting to change the provinces culture and bring in more left of centre policy , things they know would be very hard for the UCP to reverse when they eventually kick the ndp out
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( some clear evidence came out today that the minimum wage hike cost people there jobs in Ontario , the very people it was suppose to be helping , 50,000 part time jobs disappeared in Ontario , the biggest drop since the recession of 2008/9 that no one seems to even remember , most of the jobs being cut were almost all in the services sector ,
with few other options most of these newly unemployed people will likely turn to welfare and social services further putting a strain on an already in debt Ontario government )


Minimum wage hike fall out ?
Canada just lost the most jobs in nine years, with biggest drop on record in part-time work


88,000 jobs gone — economists had been expecting gain of 10,000


Bloomberg News Bloomberg News

Published on: February 9, 2018 | Last Updated: February 9, 2018 9:21 AM EST



The drop in jobs was driven by a 137,000 decline in part-time work, the biggest fall on record. National Post



It was payback time for Canada’s labour market in January, with the biggest monthly job loss since the last recession — all part-time — as employers faced quickening wage gains.

Canada shed a net 88,000 jobs during the month, a sharp stop to a recent stellar performance that saw 2017 produce the biggest increase in jobs since 2002. The drop reflected a record loss of 137,000 part-time jobs, and a 49,000 gain in full-time work.

The employment drop coincided with an increase in the minimum wage in Canada’s largest province — Ontario. That fueled an acceleration of the national wage rate to an annualized pace of 3.3 per cent that was the fastest since 2015.


“Those looking for the impact of the minimum wage hike in Ontario might find evidence in a 51K drop in that province’s employment (all of which was in part time),” wrote CIBC chief economist Avery Shenfeld.

The report is a long-waited correction in a tightening labour market that is more consistent with an economy that has been slowing down since the second half of last year. The unemployment rate increased to 5.9 per cent in January, from a record low 5.8 per cent in December.


Economists surveyed by Bloomberg News had forecast the economy would generate 10,000 jobs in January, and the jobless rate would remain unchanged.

Canada’s economy has still seen employment increase by 288,700 jobs over the past 12 months — 146,000 of which came in November and December. Full-time employment is up 558,900 over the past 18 months, which is unprecedented.

Highlights of Canada January Jobs Report

• Ontario recorded the biggest decline last month, down 51,000 — all part-time. It was the largest monthly drop for the province since 2009.

• Annual wages gains accelerated to 3.3 per cent in January, the fastest since 2015 and up from 2.7 per cent in December.

• Wage increases for permanent workers increased by 3.3 per cent, up from 2.9 per cent.

• Actual hours worked slowed in January to an annualized pace of 2.8 per cent, from 3.3 per cent in December

• Most of the job losses were in services, which posted a 71,900 decline. Goods-producing employers shed 16,200 jobs during the month


http://ottawacitizen.com/news/.....m/e5270670
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( it seems hard to believe that the largest part time job loses in record and the increased minimum wage in Ontario aren't related , isn't other economic changes this month that could be blamed for the loses , other than the higher wages )


Canada sheds 88,000 net jobs in January



Canadian jobs lost, but not as bad as the headline suggests

The Canadian economy shed 88,000 jobs in January, but that was largely in part-time positions as full-time employment grew by 49,000. Frances Donald, Senior Economist, Manulife Asset Management says it's not as bad as it looks, although it may ease expectations a bit of two rate hikes this year at the Bank of Canada.




Andy Blatchford, The Canadian Press
Published Friday, February 9, 2018 8:37AM EST
Last Updated Friday, February 9, 2018 10:28AM EST


OTTAWA -- The number of jobs in Canada fell by 88,000 in January to give the labour market its steepest one-month drop in nine years, Statistics Canada said Friday.

The overall number was dragged down by a loss of 137,000 part-time positions in what was easily the category's largest one-month collapse since the agency started gathering the data in 1976.

Statistics Canada's latest jobs survey said the net decline helped push the national unemployment rate up to 5.9 per cent in January, from a revised 5.8 per cent the previous month.


A worker in Ontario
A man works at the Brose Canada plant in London, Ont, on Thursday, Feb. 27, 2014 (THE CANADIAN PRESS/ Geoff Robins)

But on the other hand, the agency said the economy generated 49,000 full-time positions last month.

"Overall, a mysterious mix of good and bad, with the latter's impact blunted by how strong job gains were in the lead-up to these figures," CIBC chief economist Avery Shenfeld wrote in a research note to clients.

"January saw an (88,000) drop in employment, reversing about half of the spectacular gains we registered late last year. But the details also looking wonky, with all of the job losses in part-time work."

Even with the overall decline in January, Canada has been on a strong run of job creation that has seen the country add 414,100 full-time jobs over a 12-month period. The growth represents an increase of 2.8 per cent.

Over that same period, the number of less desirable part-time positions declined by 125,400 or 3.5 per cent.

The January reading marked the end of a 13-month streak of job gains, however, about half of those positive numbers were within the survey's margin of error.

A closer look at the numbers revealed that the number of paid employee positions also experienced a significant loss last month by shedding 112,000 positions.

By comparison, the number of people who identified as self-employed workers -- often seen as a less desirable category that includes unpaid work in a family business -- increased last month by 23,900.

Wage growth also received a boost in January, a month that saw Ontario lift its minimum wage. Compared with the year before, average hourly wages for permanent employees expanded 3.3 per cent.

By region, the agency said Ontario and Quebec saw the biggest decreases last month, while New Brunswick and Manitoba also had net losses.

Here are the jobless rates last month by province (revised numbers from the previous month in brackets):
• Newfoundland and Labrador 14.0 per cent (14.7)
• Prince Edward Island 10.6 (9.7)
• Nova Scotia 8.2 (8.0)
• New Brunswick 9.1 (7.8)
• Quebec 5.4 (5.0)
• Ontario 5.5 (5.6)
• Manitoba 5.6 (5.6)
• Saskatchewan 5.4 (6.5)
• Alberta 7.0 (7.0)
• British Columbia 4.8 (4.6)

Here are the jobless rates last month by city (revised numbers from the previous month in brackets):
• St. John's, N.L. 8.4 per cent (8.6)
• Halifax 6.8 (7.0)
• Moncton, N.B. 6.1 (5.7)
• Saint John, N.B. 6.4 (6.0)
• Saguenay, Que. 6.2 (6.0)
• Quebec 3.3 (3.9)
• Sherbrooke, Que. 5.8 (6.0)
• Trois-Rivieres, Que. 4.2 (4.3)
• Montreal 5.8 (6.0)
• Gatineau, Que. 5.2 (5.5)
• Ottawa 5.4 (5.6)
• Kingston, Ont. 5.6 (5.5)
• Peterborough, Ont. 4.8 (4.6)
• Oshawa, Ont. 5.2 (5.5)
• Toronto 5.9 (6.0)
• Hamilton, Ont. 4.7 (4.6)
• St. Catharines-Niagara, Ont. 5.9 (6.7)
• Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo, Ont. 5.1 (5.4)
• Brantford, Ont. 4.7 (4.7)
• Guelph, Ont. 5.7 (6.2)
• London, Ont. 6.5 (6.2)
• Windsor, Ont. 4.6 (6.0)
• Barrie, Ont. 4.8 (3.4)
• Sudbury, Ont. 6.8 (6.8)
• Thunder Bay, Ont. 5.8 (6.1)
• Winnipeg 5.7 (5.6)
• Regina 4.4 (4.6)
• Saskatoon 7.4 (7.7)
• Calgary 7.6 (7.5)
• Edmonton 7.2 (7.2)
• Kelowna, B.C. 6.5 (6.2)
• Abbotsford, B.C. 4.4 (4.8)
• Vancouver 4.1 (4.1)
• Victoria 3.9 (3.5)

A quick look at January employment (revised numbers from the previous month in brackets):
• Unemployment rate: 5.9 per cent (5.8)
• Employment rate: 61.7 per cent (62.0)
• Labour force participation rate: 65.5 per cent (65.8)
• Number unemployed: 1,153,400 (1,139,100)
• Number working: 18,557,100 (18,645,100)
• Youth (15-24 years) unemployment rate: 10.9 per cent (10.5)
• Men (25 plus) unemployment rate: 5.2 per cent (5.2)
• Women (25 plus) unemployment rate: 4.8 per cent (4.7)


https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canada-sheds-88-000-net-jobs-in-january-1.3796395
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have seen personally, in south western Ontario, they are hiring. There is an economic quickening which I think is based on the anticipated boom Trump's America.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
From what I have seen personally, in south western Ontario, they are hiring. There is an economic quickening which I think is based on the anticipated boom Trump's America.


I've seen places hiring here as well , a lot of fast food places have " now hiring " on there signs or in windows , so there is clearly still jobs to be found in this sector

however the numbers would seem to indicate some employers cut back staffing numbers after the holiday rush ended , these numbers would also likely include the "sears Canada " closures which included dozens of stores with 100's of staff each

the newly unemployed will likely find the job market tough , however not impossible to find something if there willing to work for $14 an hour

another problem too , is most of the available jobs are in highly skilled positions , know here the job banks are filled with jobs in the skilled trades or for chefs . however the unemployed here don't have these skills at the level employers want so the positions remain unfilled
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think about the social cost - -we have this huge investment in education, and what have we got for it? A bunch of young people who don't know how to work, feel entitled, and who don't know if they're punched or bored, as they used to say.

They lay around, getting high.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that it lessens the expected impact. Which is a good thing, as far as that goes.

The consequences, however, won't be felt for a long time. There will be price increases, and people on fixed incomes will suffer. But the consequences for this election won't be as great as expected. Conservatives should avoid this subject.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh fellas.....Gosh....so the sky actually isnt falling ?

Come on, dont play w me, Ive read 8 pages of you two telling me it would !

Well, I suppose I will get another 8 pages of you two telling me its all good.

LOL !
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Gosh fellas.....Gosh....so the sky actually isnt falling ?

Come on, dont play w me, Ive read 8 pages of you two telling me it would !

Well, I suppose I will get another 8 pages of you two telling me its all good.

LOL !



the stats can numbers released today , clearly indicate part time jobs have been lost in Ontario since the minimum wage went up , this is a proven fact now and cannot be discredited

wynne said raising the minimum wage was going to help people but clearly more people than ever have been left behind and lost the low paying job they had before the wage went up

so many people who were suppose to benefit are now collecting EI instead and could soon move on to other forms of social assistance if they are unable to find a new job
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:



the stats can numbers released today , clearly indicate part time jobs have been lost in Ontario since the minimum wage went up , this is a proven fact now and cannot be discredited

Unless you discredit your onw posts w ' I've seen places hiring here as well , a lot of fast food places have " now hiring " on there signs or in windows , so there is clearly still jobs to be found in this sector '



however the numbers would seem to indicate some employers cut back staffing numbers after the holiday rush ended , these numbers would also likely include the "sears Canada " closures which included dozens of stores with 100's of staff each '

Oh gosh.... hoisted by ones own petard.

Not easy to do . Congratulations.

Come come now, you and the uneducated one were constantly posting the sky would fall.

It hasnt. You know, well the other guy hasnt a shred of decency , we all know.

Own it.
RCO





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
RCO wrote:



the stats can numbers released today , clearly indicate part time jobs have been lost in Ontario since the minimum wage went up , this is a proven fact now and cannot be discredited

Unless you discredit your onw posts w ' I've seen places hiring here as well , a lot of fast food places have " now hiring " on there signs or in windows , so there is clearly still jobs to be found in this sector '



however the numbers would seem to indicate some employers cut back staffing numbers after the holiday rush ended , these numbers would also likely include the "sears Canada " closures which included dozens of stores with 100's of staff each '

Oh gosh.... hoisted by ones own petard.

Not easy to do . Congratulations.

Come come now, you and the uneducated one were constantly posting the sky would fall.

It hasnt. You know, well the other guy hasnt a shred of decency , we all know.

Own it.



no one was saying every minimum wage paying employer was going to close down after Jan 1st , people were saying jobs were going to be lost cause of this policy and that seems to be the case , either way is no evidence new minimum wage jobs are being created cause of the change

prices have also gone up , was just at my local grocery store , I used to buy pre made sandwiches there the odd time for lunch , were $3.99 last year , then went up to $4.99 late last year , now they are suddenly $5.99 .

I couldn't believe the price when I picked one up , that's a $2 increase from a year ago for the same sandwich , clearly businesses are trying to recoup the money lost from the wages thru higher prices on certain items
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:




prices have also gone up , was just at my local grocery store , I used to buy pre made sandwiches there the odd time for lunch , were $3.99 last year , then went up to $4.99 late last year , now they are suddenly $5.99 .

I couldn't believe the price when I picked one up , that's a $2 increase from a year ago for the same sandwich , clearly businesses are trying to recoup the money lost from the wages thru higher prices on certain items


Hmm....so the problem is the Min wage and Wynne and thats why the sandwich went up 50% in under two years.

Hmm.... and someone is NOT pissed off that a grocery store decided to raise their prices way way beyond any reasonable amount in relation to the wage increase.

And lets not forget that bread prices are down significantly since 2013. *

Math... how does it work in your world?

*That is the question raised by Sylvain Charlebois, professor in food distribution and policy and dean of the Faculty of Management at Dalhousie University.

“Bread is cheaper than it was five years ago,” Charlebois told Global News.

Indeed, the price of rolls and buns is lower today than it was in 2013, according to data from Statistics Canada.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3951560/bread-prices-are-down-so-whats-loblaws-25-gift-card-really-about/
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to jump into a spirited debate uninvited...

While I understand the argument regarding bread;
Charlebois is playing with select figures to make a point.

Wheat was at around 8 bucks a bushel at the start of 2013 and is around 4 bucks today (around 4.51 at close) and historically its been a lot closer to 4 than 8 over the last lets say 10 years, had he said 2014 for example the low was about 3.30.

To borrow from Charlebois' logic and use a select sampling to make a point, the cost of wheat today is actually "significantly" higher than it was during the lows of 2014.

For any Wheat Enthusiasts out there this is the rolling chart of Wheat Pricing;
http://www.macrotrends.net/253.....chart-data

My point is not that anyone is right or wrong, but that Charlebois is doing the good ol' Economist two step where you can use a select sampling to establish anything.

Who would have thought anyone could talk about wheat this long?
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Wynne knows $15 minimum wage will kill thousands of jobs

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