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cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
RCO wrote:

If a business owner can’t afford upcoming minimum-wage increases, they need to re-evaluate their operating model, Barrie MPP Ann Hoggarth said.

The Liberal MPP made the comment during a news conference with Ontario Labour Minister Kevin Flynn at Barrie’s Community Wholeness Centre Dec. 7. Flynn was in the city touting the recently approved Fair Workplaces, Better Jobs Act.

“If you’re going to go out of business on the backs of your employees because you can’t afford to pay them this, perhaps you should reassess your business plan and whether you should be an employer,” Hoggarth said. “This is the right thing to do.”

https://www.simcoe.com/news-story/7985541-barrie-liberal-mpp-labour-minister-talk-tough-over-minimum-wage-increase/


I am sure the voting public of the riding of Barrie-Innisfil will enjoy receiving advice on how they should "re-evaluate their operating model" from a Member of Provincial Parliament who has seemingly no relevant experience in business, business ownership, or business operation.

I would say the comments were arrogant but more than anything they are just tragic. A career government employee is answering the concerns of her community by being condescending and dismissive to those concerns.

How do you go door to door in June to business owners and their employees after a career seemingly entirely in the public sector and attempt to explain to them what they doing wrong with their business?

It would be like one of those business owners walking into her former classroom and explaining to her why her teaching method is incorrect and flawed.



I'm not sure this MPP had much relevant experience in anything before getting elected in 2014 , I had never even heard of her before and seem to recall she had no elected experience municipally or provincially

her comments demonstrate a level of arrogancy we're not used to seeing from our politicians


She was a teacher and a Public Sector Union President before she was elected to Provincial Parliament.

What makes this so tragic is the fact that there are business' in her riding that are closing and citing the wage increase as the reason behind it.

Not a theoretical, but actual business closing their doors before January 1st.

While she lacks the qualification to makes such an unbelievably ridiculous blanket statement about businesses' in general as a politician she seems to lack any sort of political instinct.

Those comments will be printed across the front of whomever the PC Candidate is for Barrie-Innisfil literature.

Its pretty easy pickings;
Basically Ann Hoggarth has said that in a nutshell, the problem is not with Government but the problem is with you.
RCO





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( businesses plan to raise prices and hire less staff as the minimum wage hike becomes law , was in a dollar store the other day and was literally 1 staff member in the entire store , most seem to have made plans how to deal with the hike and they generally mean less jobs and higher prices )


Ontario businesses raise prices as minimum wage increases

By Peter Goffin. Published on Dec 31, 2017 10:27am


iPolitics/Matthew Usherwood


TORONTO — Ontario’s new $14 per hour minimum wage does not take effect until Jan. 1, but Chris Stevens has already taken steps to ensure his restaurant can afford the added expense.

The co-owner of Kaboom Chicken in Toronto’s Leslieville neighbourhood has raised menu prices in anticipation of the wage hike. He and his business partner also plan to reduce their staff’s hours in the new year and take on more of the work themselves in order to save money.

New Year’s Day marks the first of two scheduled hikes, with the second to take place on Jan. 1, 2019, when the minimum wage will go up to $15. After that, it will be adjusted to keep pace with inflation.

The Ontario government says the change will bring greater purchasing power for working families and a stronger economy overall, but many small business owners across the province are wondering how they will maintain profits in the face of increasing payroll costs.

“It’s hard to see a way that you can lose that much of your revenue in a short period of time without having to revamp a lot of things — either letting staff go, doing a lot of the work yourself, raising prices,” Stevens said.

“We believe the minimum wage should go up and people should make a living wage, however I think (the hike) puts the onus on small businesses,” he added.

Dan Rishworth’s Toronto bicycle shop, Enduro Sport, employs seven permanent, full-time staff members and hires several young people as seasonal workers each summer when business picks up. The minimum wage increase could result in the store hiring fewer summer workers from now on, Rishworth said.

“I think at this point we’re not going to hire six summer people any longer, we’re going to hire only three or four,” he said.

The increase in payroll will also result in upper-level staff receiving fewer or smaller raises, Rishworth added.

“And I’m anticipating that (more senior) staff who are already getting $15 an hour are going to expect to get $17 or $18 or more because minimum wage is approaching $15,” he said.

The Financial Accountability Office of Ontario — an independent watchdog agency that reports to the provincial legislature — has estimated that the minimum wage hikes could result in a loss of 50,000 jobs as employers struggle to keep up with staffing costs.

“Some businesses will attempt to reduce expenses by substituting minimum wage employees for higher paid, more productive workers or by increasing automation,” the agency said in a report released in September. “This would lead to some job losses for minimum-wage workers.”

But the higher minimum wage would also increase consumer spending, “stimulate economic activity and lead to job creation (that could) offset some of the loss in employment,” it said.

Ontario Minister of Labour Kevin Flynn said last week that he doesn’t believe the “doom and gloom” predictions about rising minimum wage hurting businesses or leading to unemployment.

“We’ve raised minimum wage 70 per cent since 2003 and we’ve seen increased employment right through that period,” Flynn said at a news conference.

“I think we’ve proven we can work with small business. We are lowering the tax rate, we’re lowering the burden on small business so we’re asking them to play a part here,” he added, referencing the Liberal government’s elimination of the capital tax for businesses, and reduced income tax rates for small businesses.

“This money is going to go right back into Main Street, it’s going to go right back into the mom and pop businesses that ? are concerned,” the minister added. “(But) it’s going to take an adjustment…It’s going to take a change.”

In June, over 50 economists at universities across Canada co-wrote an open letter supporting Ontario’s $15 minimum wage plan, in part, they said, because higher wages make for a stronger economy.

“As those with lower incomes spend more of what they earn than do those with higher incomes, raising the minimum wage could play a role in economic revival,” the economists wrote.

“For years, we have heard that raising the minimum wage will kill jobs, raise prices and cause businesses to flee Ontario. This is fear-mongering that is out of line with the latest economic research.”

But some small-business owners are skeptical they’ll see a financial benefit.

Stevens said there is no guarantee the higher minimum wage will lead to more money being spent, particularly at restaurants and bars.

“What are you giving them more money for? Is it so that they can go to restaurants and spend money and have a nightlife, or to put food on the table and pay the rent?” he said.


https://ipolitics.ca/2017/12/31/ontario-businesses-raise-prices-minimum-wage-increases/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just another little thought to bring some cheer into the celebrations of the New Year ...

If you live in Ontario, tomorrow gas prices are going up by 4 cents a liter, or for the old-style people, about 16 cents a gallon. It's the start of a new era under the carbon tax... The world is becoming a better place.

I think that's why they gave us the "middle class tax cut" -- so we'd have some money to pay the new taxes they're bringing in.

Just so you know -- last year, 15,157,323,000 liters of gasoline were sold in Ontario. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/trade37b-eng.htm

Based on that, it ought to bring in an additional $600 million in revenue. Of course, the ordinary joe will pay more, because a lot of other prices will go up as well -- in principle, the prices of everything has to go up to pay the increased costs of transportation, a penny here, a penny there, it adds up.
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( according to a survey of restaurant owners , 98 % plan to raise prices ( meaning the customers will pay for this hike ) and 97% plan to reduce labour hours ( meaning the staff will make less money even after the increase that was suppose to help them ) I also don't understand why servers also get a $2 raise , they make most of there money thru tips anyways and most around here don't really need it , during the summer a younger attractive women can make a fortune thru tips , there the last person around here to need a raise )


Ont. restaurant owner says wage hike means he'll earn less than employees




Josh Dehaas, CTVNews.ca Writer

@JoshDehaas
.
Published Monday, January 1, 2018 5:01PM EST


An Ontario restaurant owner says the province’s minimum wage increase to $14 an hour and $12.20 for liquor servers means he will now being making a lower hourly wage than his employees.

Stelios Dimakos has owned Shorty’s Grill in Owen Sound, Ont., for 11 years. He says he’s always worked hard to pay his roughly two dozen workers fairly and everyone already made more than the old minimum wage of $11.60 an hour.

But with a more than 20 per cent raise overnight, Dimakos says his employees will now be making more per hour than him. He says he puts in about 90 hours of work per week and is the first one at his restaurant and often the last to leave.


Restaurant owner Stelios Dimakos
Stelios Dimakos, owner of Shorty's Grill in Owen Sound, Ont., speaks to CTV News Channel on Monday, Jan. 1, 2017.

“I don’t see my kids a lot of the time,” he says.

Dimakos calculates that his wages work out to about $12.50 per hour. The minimum wage for most workers, including dishwashers, rose from $11.60 an hour to $14 an hour in Ontario on Monday – an increase of 21 per cent. Liquor servers saw their minimum wage rise from $9.90 to $12.20 per hour – an increase of 23 per cent. That is what they make before tips, which are often a majority of a server’s pay.

Dimakos says the minimum wage increase, combined with another planned increase to $15 and $13.05 for liquor servers on Jan. 1, 2019, will hit his bottom line by about $150,000.

In order to absorb that impact without paying himself even less, Dimakos says he is raising menu prices between about 50 cents to $1 per item.

“We don’t have a choice,” he says. “I don’t want to cut staff. I don’t want to cut the quality of my product, so that’s the only solution.”

Prices could go up even more if food costs increase substantially as a result of the minimum wage, Dimakos says. Wages are about 30 per cent of his expenses, and food costs are over 40 per cent.

“So we’ve got a 21 or 22 per cent increase in wages, but what about our raw product?” he says. “Is it going to be another 10 per cent increase there? That’s huge in our industry.”

Dimakos says he wants customers to know that he’s not raising prices in order to increase profits. “We’re just doing this to try and stay alive and survive.”

A survey of restaurant owners by Restaurants Canada earlier this year found that the new minimum wage would lead 98 per cent of owners to raise prices, 97 per cent to reduce labour hours, 81 per cent to lay off staff, 74 per cent to explore labour-saving technology and 26 per cent to close at least one location.

The Financial Accountability Office of Ontario, an independent watchdog, has said that the minimum wage hikes could result in a loss of 50,000 jobs.

Dimakos says he’s not opposed to the minimum wage going up but that it’s too much to absorb overnight. “It doesn’t give us time to slowly, gradually increase our prices and adjust,” he says.

Liberal Premier Kathleen Wynne announced the minimum wage increase in May, with the bulk of the increase coming into effect just months before the province’s fixed election date, June 7, 2018.

The opposition Progressive Conservatives have said they would maintain the increase to $14 but raise minimum wages to $15 more gradually, increasing them 25 cents per hour annually until 2022.

A gradual phase-in is what B.C.’s New Democratic government is planning as it raises the province’s minimum wage from $11.35 an hour to $15 by 2021.

Alberta, which consistently has the highest weekly wages of any province, will raise its minimum wage from $13.60 to $15 on Oct. 1, 2018.

Ontario Minister of Labour Kevin Flynn told The Canadian Press last week that he doesn’t believe the “doom and gloom” scenario and that the Liberals are lowering taxes for small businesses to help them cope.

“It's going to take an adjustment,” he said. “It's going to take a change.”


https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/ont-restaurant-owner-says-wage-hike-means-he-ll-earn-less-than-employees-1.3741583
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm convinced much of Wynne's high profile policy is about providing people with things they want but don't really need , some examples so far


- beer in grocery stores , made out to be something huge and great for the province but most of the stores here that now have beer are literally minutes from an existing beer store location , the prices are virtually the same , why couldn't they have just driven the extra 2 minutes and bought it at beer store all along ? fail to see what the hype is all about on this one


- free prescription drugs for those 25 and under , but wait aren't they already covered by parents health plans and thru college/university student plans ? most of the young people now being given free drugs could of already got them for free anyways thru existing plans , only young people without a parental plan or not in school actually needed this service but they gave it to everyone anyways


- a $2 an hour raise in the minimum wage for liquor servers , who's income currently does not come from the minimum wage but rather tips , forcing employers to pay them an extra $2 an hour for just being there is ridiculous when they mostly don't even need the money , some of these servers literally make a fortune in tips already , there not broken and definitely not living in poverty
RCO





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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm hearing reports of various "minimum wage casualties " from across the province


one I heard of tonight relates to my earlier post about the "liquor server " rate


I'm hearing a major bar in Barrie Ontario is now closed on Friday night and only opening on Saturday night , this is according to an update just made today to there facebook page , and now only lists Saturday as open

this clearly has to do with the much higher minimum wage for liquor servers , they decided it didn't make economic sense to pay them the higher rate on a night that there typically less busy
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some calculations to try and figure out why some businesses would decide it made more sense to close certain days than stay open under this new higher minimum wage

it leads me to think the higher wage is like a leaky Fawcett or that draft in the window during the winter , it doesn't seem like a big deal but it can amount to one eventually


using that bar as my example , lets start out and estimate an average employee is now going to be getting an extra $2.40 an hour and work an average 5-6 hours for a total of $14.40

and then lets say on a typical Friday night they had 15 staff working , that's now a total of $216 extra added to there bills just cause of the wage hike and there not bringing in any more money cause drinks have a standard price and is only so much they can charge for a beer or mixed drink and only so many drinks they can legally serve a single customer

so now we'd say for 1 month assuming there was 4 Friday nights that now a total of $864 dollars

and for an entire year that would amount to $10368 just over ten thousand dollars in extra costs just for the wage hike

and by my calculations this business would need to bring in at least an extra $214 each Friday night for the entire year to just maintain the same amount of revenue as last year or to balance the loses from new minimum wage , which the owner clearly decided was not a realistic possibility

so we can start to see how this hike can actually amount to a lot of money for some smaller businesses , its made out to seem like its costing them very little but when you crunch the numbers it can actually amount to a lot of money , amounts so large it could be the difference from some making a profit or not , or paying the rent on time , or in some cases even staying in business or not
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Just another little thought to bring some cheer into the celebrations of the New Year ...

If you live in Ontario, tomorrow gas prices are going up by 4 cents a liter, or for the old-style people, about 16 cents a gallon. It's the start of a new era under the carbon tax... The world is becoming a better place.

I think that's why they gave us the "middle class tax cut" -- so we'd have some money to pay the new taxes they're bringing in.

Just so you know -- last year, 15,157,323,000 liters of gasoline were sold in Ontario. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/trade37b-eng.htm

Based on that, it ought to bring in an additional $600 million in revenue. Of course, the ordinary joe will pay more, because a lot of other prices will go up as well -- in principle, the prices of everything has to go up to pay the increased costs of transportation, a penny here, a penny there, it adds up.


If adding the 8% portion of the PST onto Gasoline when HST went into effect had a minimal effect on fuel consumption, anyone in government selling a carbon tax on gasoline as a means to reduce consumption has a challenge ahead of them.

Its really quite amazing that many of these approaching by government to save the world from ourselves also seem to have the added benefit of generating revenue for that very same government.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't think I can recall a single policy that had such a negative affect on the business community on so many levels and that also had such a negative affect on the typical consumer .


as a consumer what I'm possibly gaining from this policy ?????? I couldn't even name anything but I'm losing on so many fronts

- higher prices on most products and services
- reduced hours and even stores deciding to close entirely on certain days
- longer lines and slower service due to there being fewer cashiers and staff on duty


as for local casualties the list continues to grow and late night snacks can now be added to the list

was downtown and the convenience store that was normally open 24 hours or very late , there is a notice in the window its now closing at 11pm and reopening at 5am , meaning it will be closed late night , which means no more late night snacks or doritos as there going to be closed , this decision was almost certainly due to minimum wage as it had always been open late


things are even worse at the local M&M frozen foods outlet , there a sign suddenly appeared in the window saying the entire business was now "for sale " .

doubt it was the rise in the minimum wage that caused owner to decide to sell , rather the massive rise in hydro prices , all there big freezers would cost a fortune to run year round . considering the cost of hydro in Ontario a business person would be crazy to enter into this sort of business now days , you'd lose all your profit on the hydro bills
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
don't think I can recall a single policy that had such a negative affect on the business community on so many levels and that also had such a negative affect on the typical consumer .

I dont feel affected in the slightest. But thats me and it is early. Will let you know if I change my mind
Quote:

as a consumer what I'm possibly gaining from this policy ?????? I couldn't even name anything but I'm losing on so many fronts

Pay less in tips.
Many people hoping to get their head above water?
Quote:

as for local casualties the list continues to grow and late night snacks can now be added to the list

was downtown and the convenience store that was normally open 24 hours or very late , there is a notice in the window its now closing at 11pm and reopening at 5am , meaning it will be closed late night , which means no more late night snacks or doritos as there going to be closed , this decision was almost certainly due to minimum wage as it had always been open late

You sure about that?

They closed due to $2.40 an hour? Or more than likely closed as there just isnt the business anymore?
The obvious answer is obvious.

Quote:

things are even worse at the local M&M frozen foods outlet , there a sign suddenly appeared in the window saying the entire business was now "for sale " .

doubt it was the rise in the minimum wage that caused owner to decide to sell ,

Death.
Profitable sale.
tired of working.
retirement.
Ill health for owner or family member.
Moving.
Wants a change.

Who knows.
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
RCO wrote:
don't think I can recall a single policy that had such a negative affect on the business community on so many levels and that also had such a negative affect on the typical consumer .

I dont feel affected in the slightest. But thats me and it is early. Will let you know if I change my mind
Quote:

as a consumer what I'm possibly gaining from this policy ?????? I couldn't even name anything but I'm losing on so many fronts

Pay less in tips.
Many people hoping to get their head above water?
Quote:

as for local casualties the list continues to grow and late night snacks can now be added to the list

was downtown and the convenience store that was normally open 24 hours or very late , there is a notice in the window its now closing at 11pm and reopening at 5am , meaning it will be closed late night , which means no more late night snacks or doritos as there going to be closed , this decision was almost certainly due to minimum wage as it had always been open late

You sure about that?

They closed due to $2.40 an hour? Or more than likely closed as there just isnt the business anymore?
The obvious answer is obvious.

Quote:

things are even worse at the local M&M frozen foods outlet , there a sign suddenly appeared in the window saying the entire business was now "for sale " .

doubt it was the rise in the minimum wage that caused owner to decide to sell ,

Death.
Profitable sale.
tired of working.
retirement.
Ill health for owner or family member.
Moving.
Wants a change.

Who knows.



my point was I can't see what I'm possibly gaining from this policy , every store or fast food place I go to is raising prices or slower as they have less staff on . how does this possibly benefit the average consumer ?

I'm I suppose to go to bed feeling good about myself cause I paid more money on my purchases so some bum making minimum wage can take home a little bit of extra money and use it for whatever they please ? which is far as we know could be booze or pot once its legalised


and your solution that I simply tip less if I feel restaurant bill is now too high . is hardly a long term solution to this problem . I'm suppose offend some poor server ? cause I felt the bill was too high , something they had no control over as they only served me , they didn't create the menu or decide to raise prices


I can't think of any reason why the convenience store downtown would suddenly now be closed at 11 pm other than cause of the minimum wage , that store has been there for years , its always been open late , I'm sure it was less busy after 11 pm but there was still business , there is a couple pubs and bars nearby that are open late and people would buy things from the store

I'm sure the owner of the M&M's wants a change , can you blame them ? think how much money they've likely lost due to the rise of hydro prices alone ? and now the minimum wage is going up and will cut away even more at there slim profits . I can't blame them for wanting to sell but its doubtful anyone would want to buy it
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:
my point was I can't see what I'm possibly gaining from this policy ,

Gaining? If you work one of these jobs then you gained an extra $2.40 an hour. If you dont....then you and everyone else (me included) are the same.
Quote:

every store or fast food place I go to is raising prices or slower as they have less staff on . how does this possibly benefit the average consumer ?

I have a problem with this.

It went into effect yesterday. And most places were closed.

Do tell us the details.
Quote:

I'm I suppose to go to bed feeling good about myself cause I paid more money on my purchases so some bum making minimum wage can take home a little bit of extra money and use it for whatever they please ? which is far as we know could be booze or pot once its legalised


Um..."so some bum" , "pot or booze"......cuz ya know, nobody will use it to buy food for their kids, or get another snowsuit or other needed item.

The ENTIRE wage increase will be spent on booze and pot.

Good to know.
Quote:

and your solution that I simply tip less if I feel restaurant bill is now too high . is hardly a long term solution to this problem . I'm suppose offend some poor server ? cause I felt the bill was too high , something they had no control over as they only served me , they didn't create the menu or decide to raise prices

Psst....Australia. Look it up.

Higher wages and no tipping (not to mention the prce you see is all in, tax and all which I like)

The idea of less tips is because the server got an increase. I have been a 20% tipper for a couple years now. Back to 15% for me.
Quote:

I can't think of any reason why the convenience store downtown would suddenly now be closed at 11 pm other than cause of the minimum wage , that store has been there for years , its always been open late , I'm sure it was less busy after 11 pm but there was still business , there is a couple pubs and bars nearby that are open late and people would buy things from the store

Youre a smart guy, you figure it out.

A variety store closes because they cant afford $2.40 ? You really think that?

There is a reason, and it is NOT due to wage increase.
Quote:

I'm sure the owner of the M&M's wants a change , can you blame them ?

I want change too! Maybe M&M's could produce something that tastes like food for one. Ever wonder where M&M sources their food? Although a viable and competent company (I suppose) if they disappeared I would not give one whit. ( and thats even knowing the original owner .
Quote:

think how much money they've likely lost due to the rise of hydro prices alone ? and now the minimum wage is going up and will cut away even more at there slim profits . I can't blame them for wanting to sell but its doubtful anyone would want to buy it

Minimally staffed they are. So no doubt thats not a consideration.

They are even expanding so the one you go to might be the shit one of the bunch. They closed many many stores years ago but are on an expansion.

Lets hope $2.40 doesnt derail their ambitious plans.

BTW....be a smarter shopper. M&M's?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a wage increase that's based on anything having to do with economics. TC dismisses the impact, based on what? The same sneering, factless expression of attitude that he give us so regularly?

This is an exercise in buying votes. Plain and simple. And it isn't a small raise. If you work a 40 hour week, it's $100 a week. Even so, minimum wage people will end up being even further away from the goal of having a minimum wage that allows the worker to support a family.

I would imagine that it won't affect all businesses equally, but retail stores often feel they have to stay open as part of their service. They may go from 3 clerks to 2 for most of the week, or something like that. Stores in retail malls have their hours set by the lessee so closing on Monday and Tuesday isn't a solution. But laying the worst worker off probably is.

There are whole sections of the economy that run on minimum wages. There is the agricultural sector, in which case, the raises will mostly go to migrant workers. Did they think of that?

But the thing our dim-bulb Liberal fails to notice -- probably because he doesn't have employees -- is that this will initiate a movement upwards of the whole pay scale. If the minimum wage is $14, what happens to the people presently making $14 an hour? They'll want another $2.40 an hour, and while you're at it, why not round it up to $2.80? The unions will use that as a baseline, and try to get more. Everything will get more expensive. The bottom level will get the $2.40 an hour, but the supervisor will get $3.60 an hour more, and his/her supervisor will get $8000 a year more, and so it goes. Civil servants will say What's up with that? Staruck's has raised the price of muffins and we're not going to Timmie's! We need more.. They always want more.

But none of them will be producing more.

So we will have the same number of commodities -- maybe less -- for sale, and more money wanting to buy those commodities. That's the classic pop definition of inflation.
I would say that any government -- or central bank, either -- that encourages inflation as a social policy is impoverishing their population. The people will need more money just to stay even.

It'll be a stab in the back for retirees or people living on fixed incomes.

In other words, all the economic considerations say this is bad policy. If it worked, why would they stop at $14? Why not go to $25? It's because is doesn't work that they don't do that.

Inflation is a tax on savings. And that will be the final effect.
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

( is the CBC turning on the minimum wage issue , putting out an article admitting it will cost jobs not create them )


Minimum wage hikes could cost Canada's economy 60,000 jobs this year

8% of Canadian workers make minimum wage, and even those making slightly more likely to see higher wages

By Pete Evans, CBC News Posted: Jan 03, 2018 5:00 AM ET| Last Updated: Jan 03, 2018 8:14 AM ET

Four Canadian provinces are scheduled to raise their minimum wages this year, a development that's bound to have positive and negative impacts on the local economy.



Minimum wage hikes across Canada this year could cost about 60,000 jobs, despite the benefits they would bring, the Bank of Canada says in a new report.

The central bank published a report over the winter break, attempting to calculate what sort of economic impact a series of minimum wage hikes set to come into force this year will have on Canada's economy.

As of Jan. 1, Ontario's minimum wage is now $14 an hour, up from $11.60. By the end of 2018, Alberta, Quebec and Prince Edward Island are also expected to hike their minimum wages.

Economists and business leaders have squabbled over the issue, with some of the former arguing higher wages boost the economy and help fight income inequality. Those on the other side, meanwhile, say the costs are too high and will come with a heavy toll on the job market.


Farmer Kevin Howe of Howe Family Farms in Aylmer, Ont., a small business that has been in operation for five generations, said he's already reducing the amount of crops he plans to plant this year, and fears he won't need as many workers because consumers won't be willing to pay the higher prices he'll have to charge to cover wage increases.

"Costs are always going up and we need to be able to pass these costs on to stay in business," he told CBC News in an interview Tuesday.



Ontario farmer on wage hikes6:18

Some summers he hires up to 400 people to pick his strawberry crop, but this year there will be far fewer hours available as the farm has reduced its strawberry acreage by 30 per cent as a precaution. "It's definitely going to impact the amount of work available," he said. "It's going to make for shorter days [and is] definitely not going to be good for the community."
■How Ontario's economy will react to $15 minimum wage

Rising wages are certainly direct costs for small business owners. But the impact on workers is just as direct. A minimum wage worker in Ontario just got a raise of $2.40 an hour compared to what they were making last week. That's an extra $96 a week for full-time work, or almost $5,000 a year, before taxes and other deductions.

That's real money in their pocket, but the job market isn't the only thing set to be impacted by a higher minimum wage.

By the bank's reckoning, the official inflation rate is expected to get a boost of about 0.1 percentage points because of the hikes this year alone. And growth in the overall economy is expected to be held back by about the same amount.

But on the jobs front, the impact could be greater.
■Why the minimum wage 'Fight for $15' may be the wrong battle

Based on one of the models the bank uses, Canada's economy could have roughly 60,000 fewer jobs by the end of the year than it would otherwise have seen. But other models the bank uses show a wider range of results, from as little as 30,000 to as many as 136,000 jobs lost.

No matter how the bank slices the numbers, however, the result is the same: hiking minimum wages will result in fewer jobs, at least in the short term.

"Although empirical evidence is mixed on the magnitude of minimum wage effects, most studies for Canada find that the reduction in employment is statistically significant, especially for younger workers," the bank said in its report.

Paradoxically, while minimum wage workers stand to benefit in the form of higher salaries, they could potentially also be hurt as the job market in that sector may dry up, making it harder to get a job if they lose theirs.
■Does raising the minimum wage kill jobs? Decades-long U.S. study suggests no

There are certainly positives to be had, though. Hiking minimum wages makes a real impact on workers on that end of the spectrum — a group the central bank says is as large as eight per cent of the entire work force.

There are spillover effects for other people, too. Even workers making only slightly above minimum wage can expect to see their wages increase. Overall, the bank says almost one out of every six Canadian workers can expect to see their salary increase as a direct result of minimum wage hikes, whether they are making that much currently or not.

The impact is also likely to be different across the country, which is why Scotiabank's deputy chief economist Brett House appreciated how the central bank put them all into one framework to weigh the pros and cons.


"It's not a zero sum game where those jobs are gone and they'll never be replaced," he said in an interview.

Even if some jobs are lost, things that businesses do to become more productive in the face of higher costs tend to pay off for everyone over the long term, House said. Activities such as automation and other productivity enhancements "also kick off demand for other skills in the economy too," he said.

The ongoing debate over minimum wages is so important because it speaks to issues of income inequality, House said.

Because over the past decade and a half, he said, any Canadians who own stocks or real estate have done very well, financially speaking. "The recovery has mainly benefited you," he said. But that's not true of a huge percentage of the population who depend on their pay cheques as a sole source of income. "If you rely on wages only, you haven't had a real wage increase in any substantial way in 10 to 15 years."

That's why House is among those who thinks the positives of wage increases will outweigh the negatives.

"Raising wages is really essential to keeping everyone bought in to the economic model that is Canada," he said.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/busines.....-1.4469912
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
RCO wrote:
my point was I can't see what I'm possibly gaining from this policy ,

Gaining? If you work one of these jobs then you gained an extra $2.40 an hour. If you dont....then you and everyone else (me included) are the same.
Quote:

every store or fast food place I go to is raising prices or slower as they have less staff on . how does this possibly benefit the average consumer ?

I have a problem with this.

It went into effect yesterday. And most places were closed.

Do tell us the details.
Quote:

I'm I suppose to go to bed feeling good about myself cause I paid more money on my purchases so some bum making minimum wage can take home a little bit of extra money and use it for whatever they please ? which is far as we know could be booze or pot once its legalised


Um..."so some bum" , "pot or booze"......cuz ya know, nobody will use it to buy food for their kids, or get another snowsuit or other needed item.

The ENTIRE wage increase will be spent on booze and pot.

Good to know.
Quote:

and your solution that I simply tip less if I feel restaurant bill is now too high . is hardly a long term solution to this problem . I'm suppose offend some poor server ? cause I felt the bill was too high , something they had no control over as they only served me , they didn't create the menu or decide to raise prices

Psst....Australia. Look it up.

Higher wages and no tipping (not to mention the prce you see is all in, tax and all which I like)

The idea of less tips is because the server got an increase. I have been a 20% tipper for a couple years now. Back to 15% for me.
Quote:

I can't think of any reason why the convenience store downtown would suddenly now be closed at 11 pm other than cause of the minimum wage , that store has been there for years , its always been open late , I'm sure it was less busy after 11 pm but there was still business , there is a couple pubs and bars nearby that are open late and people would buy things from the store

Youre a smart guy, you figure it out.

A variety store closes because they cant afford $2.40 ? You really think that?

There is a reason, and it is NOT due to wage increase.
Quote:

I'm sure the owner of the M&M's wants a change , can you blame them ?

I want change too! Maybe M&M's could produce something that tastes like food for one. Ever wonder where M&M sources their food? Although a viable and competent company (I suppose) if they disappeared I would not give one whit. ( and thats even knowing the original owner .
Quote:

think how much money they've likely lost due to the rise of hydro prices alone ? and now the minimum wage is going up and will cut away even more at there slim profits . I can't blame them for wanting to sell but its doubtful anyone would want to buy it

Minimally staffed they are. So no doubt thats not a consideration.

They are even expanding so the one you go to might be the shit one of the bunch. They closed many many stores years ago but are on an expansion.

Lets hope $2.40 doesnt derail their ambitious plans.

BTW....be a smarter shopper. M&M's?



my point is the average consumer isn't gaining anything from this policy and is in fact worse off now than they were before the change .

the average family ( if there not minimum wage earners , either on pensions or earning more ) is going to lose money , as prices have risen at so many places , there likely losing $50 - $100 each month if you were to add up all the times they were paying more , an extra 50 cents here and a $1 there eventually ads up


as to what the typical minimum wage earner spends the extra money on ? that is there decision , but with rent increases , hydro bills , credit card bills , there isn't going to be a lot extra left , anyone who thinks the economy is going to boom in 2 weeks when they start getting slightly bigger pay cheques is dreaming


no one really believes that convenience stores decision to eliminate late night hours was not related to the minimum wage hike , the notice went up on there door jan 1 or 2 , literally the day after the minimum wage went up and is no reasons locally for the change , other businesses in the plaza are still open and been no late night robberies here or local factors I could think of
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Wynne knows $15 minimum wage will kill thousands of jobs

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