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Bugs





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would think, from the smarmy talk of Cullen and the way the story is reported that it is the "rolling out" of the plan that was the problem.

It's not the tricky new changes ... it's not the breaking of the promises to foster small business and bring us a more dynamic economy ... no, it's the dog-and-pony show that is used to confuse the reporters. In effect, the product isn't at fault, it's the sales pitch.

This is the heart of the lie they told us during the campaign. They are failing on every front except garnering selfies with "the face" of the party. Is our economy becoming more dynamic? Or is it plugging along pretty much as Harper's government did, except they're going $30 billion a year into the hole?

This is not an unusual event. This is the pattern -- the high-flown rhetoric, the sneaky failed performances, the bungled execution -- and the goofy smile.

Their basic plan was to force the high-income people to pay for benefits for single mothers. All the rest of it was pie-in-the-sky, made up in the moment to exploit the situation. It worked, but now we know - they hadn't any serious worked out plans for the electoral changes, or the dynamic economy, or anything else. And now they are stuck with making it look like they're a crackerjack team.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NDP say Morneau sponsored a pension bill that will benefit Morneau Shepell

‘I’ve never seen a finance minister in this much trouble.’ — Nathan Cullen


Janice Dickson

Tuesday, October 17th, 2017




The NDP has asked Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner Mary Dawson to investigate Finance Minister Bill Morneau over a bill he sponsored that affects pensions and could benefit his former firm, Morneau Shepell.

“Years from now, when you look through the political handbook of Canada, right beside of the definition of ‘conflict of interest’ will be a picture of Morneau,” NDP MP Nathan Cullen said at a news conference in the foyer of the Commons on Tuesday.

Morneau tabled bill C-27 last October, which would allow for the creation of target benefit pension plans and make it possible...



http://ipolitics.ca/2017/10/17.....u-shepell/
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great commentary. It's easy to forget about getting new groups involved to win elections, but particularly the way you put it about the marijuana issue makes it clear. It's a flash of thigh for the deplorables.

They are quoting Cullen, who is probably the ranking NDPer in the Commons ... but where's Andrew? This is turning into a seriously lack-lustre performance. I keep thinking ... I wonder what Kevin O'Leary would have to say about this?
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Is our economy becoming more dynamic? Or is it plugging along pretty much as Harper's government did, except they're going $30 billion a year into the hole?


The usual indicators state the Economy is robust;
But for the purpose of the Federal Government in terms of revenue generation;

In the final year of deficit for the Tories (2014)
Government Revenue was 276b with spending being at around 279b creating a 3b dollar deficit.

In the most recent year for the Liberals (2017);
Government Revenue is projected at around 305b but spending is projected at 330b creating a 25b+ deficit, stacked on the 29b dollar deficit from the year prior.

The Economy and its citizens have been kind enough to generate an addition 30b in Federal Government Revenue in the last few years (About $1500 per each person in the 20m strong labour force)

The argument is either the Economy is more robust or people are paying more in taxes or a combination of both.

Either way;
The Federal Government has never seen revenue in excess of 300b dollars in its history so the inability to balance the books isn't about revenue its about spending.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add the above thought;

The projected 305,000,000,000 in 2017 Federal Government Revenue is enough money to have presented a balanced budget in any single fiscal year in Canadian History.

Even the Harper Spend O' Rama budget from 2010 would have seen a 25,000,000,000 surplus with 2017 Government Revenue.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your comments only make me realize that it's actually worse than I thought.

Not in the sense that we see now, but if there is a serious slump, which is anything but impossible, we're going to be looking at a $45-$50 billion deficit.

We are at the end of a business cycle, or at least we can expect that, and with it, something of a slump.

There are stock market gains and people use that as an indicator of economic conditions, but in this case, it is all in anticipation of the promised big Trump tax cuts, If McCain manages to do to the tax cuts what he did to the post-Obamacare plan, the news might feel different.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( some of David Akins tweets seem to hint that Morneau still owns shares in Morneau Shepell and making a lot of money , it also put him in a position of conflict of interest if he's introducing bills that would affect that company directly , it would seem like a very clear conflict of interest )



vid Akin‏Verified account @davidakin · 7h7 hours ago


David Akin Retweeted Luc Simard 🇨🇦

Yes. #C27, which is Morneau's bill, would improve biz conditions for the kinds of firms that are sending Morneau $146/month in dividends





David Akin‏Verified account @davidakin · 8h8 hours ago



Dividends paid since Oct 2015 by Morneau Shepell to someone who holds 2.5m shares in the company (like, say, @Bill_Morneau) is $3.2 million.



14 replies 143 retweets 110 likes





Luc Simard 🇨🇦‏
@skylucsimard1


Follow Follow @skylucsimard1



Replying to @davidakin @Bill_Morneau

Anyway the finance minister can influence the value of his portfolio through policy?
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( I never liked this guy to begin with and the more that comes out , the more he is starting to look like a fraud , maybe he found a way around the current law that was legal but it doesn't look good )



EXCLUSIVE: Morneau using ethics loophole to maintain ownership of shares in family business



Glen McGregor, Senior Political Correspondent, CTV National News

@glen_mcgregor
.

Rachel Aiello, Ottawa News Bureau Online Producer

@rachaiello
.
Published Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:27AM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:02PM EDT

OTTAWA -- Finance Minister Bill Morneau continues to own shares in his family’s business Morneau Shepell through a corporate structure that keeps him from having to divest or put his shares in a blind trust, CTV News has learned.

Morneau has been able to do so by using a loophole in the ethics law that Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner Mary Dawson says she flagged long ago.

Dawson first confirmed on CTV’s Power Play that Morneau does not directly own the shares -- instead, he owns them indirectly through a holding company.


“He doesn’t hold them, the corporation holds them, that’s the legal entity,” Dawson told CTV News in a subsequent interview.

The confirmation comes after a day of questions to the government over potential conflicts of interests as a result of Morneau’s cabinet portfolio and his personal finances.

Securities filings accessed by CTV News show that he owned as many as two million shares in Morneau Shepell in 2011 -- today worth more than $40 million dollars, through a numbered company he set up in Alberta.

Morneau personally holds a one third stake in the Calgary-based company, with the remaining two thirds owned by another numbered corporation in Ontario that Morneau solely owns.

Six weeks before the 2015 election, Morneau's wife Nancy McCain was made director of the Ontario holding company according to its corporate filings. She also received employment income from the Alberta corporation, according to the ethics disclosure he filed with Dawson.

Generally, as the law operates now if someone has stock, it’s a “controlled asset” and upon becoming a public office holder would be required to either divest or put it in to a blind trust. However, shares that are held by a corporation are not considered to be directly held by the individual.

Dawson says she interprets the law to refer to shares that that are held directly, and not those held indirectly, as is the case with Morneau. This loophole is something she’s advocated to have amended in the past, to count both shares directly or indirectly held.

“This provision has sat there since I came in. I made a recommendation in 2013 that it be adjusted and it wasn’t, so my job is to fulfill the will of Parliament on what the rules are.”

When he took the Finance minister position, Dawson set up an ethics screen managed by his chief of staff to keep Morneau from getting involved in government business that could affect the company, but his continued ownership of the giant HR firm creates numerous conflicts of interest, the opposition charges.

NDP ethics and deputy finance critic Nathan Cullen said this shows that the Conflict of Interest act needs an overhaul, and that it’s time for Morneau to lay everything on the table.

“If this isn’t a conflict of interest, then almost nothing is,” he said. “He’s still getting the benefit and he’s using his public office to get that benefit and that is wrong no matter which way you interpret.

Conservative finance critic Pierre Poilievre told CTV News that he finds it ironic that after going after business owners for tax loopholes, Morneau has been using one to get around having to divest or put his assets in a blind trust.

“The fact of the matter is Bill Morneau is the nation’s top financial decision maker and he owns tens of millions of dollars in shares in his family business, which is involved in financial services and pension administration. There are obvious problems and Mr. Morneau is failing to live up to the highest ethical standards here,” said Poilievre.

Earlier Tuesday, Dawson acknowledged that she didn’t advise Morneau against establishing a blind trust for his assets, just that it was not necessary to do so, though now she says perhaps setting up a blind trust anyways is something people in the future will likely consider.

“Hindsight is always very valuable,” said Dawson.

Morneau's office said Tuesday night that he has followed all the advice the ethics commissioner gave him. Today he wrote to her saying he's willing to meet and discuss putting his assets in a blind trust.

“Over the last two years my family and I have placed our trust in you, and we have the utmost confidence in the recommendations you put forward. I have taken great care to follow them diligently. However, as you know, these recommendations have recently been the subject of increased public scrutiny, and I am writing to seek further guidance in this matter. I would ask that we meet again to discuss the guidance you have provided and the assets, holdings and disclosures I have,” Morneau’s letter to Dawson said.


http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....-1.3635880
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno ... what are the pension changes we're talking about? It makes a difference if the changes are in the general interest or not. The kind of business that Moreau has come from is one where detailed, hair-splitting lines are drawn between what is "legal" and what is not, and they go right to that line and feel justified.

Tne 'spirit of the law' is not something that concerns these people. In their profession, those standards are accepted. In fact, the 'smart guys' are those that can arrange their affairs in such a way that it thwarts the spirit of the law.

Politics is quite different. In politics, appearances matter and legalities, less so. Atkins implies he made$3.2 million -- but what's the relation of that to the changes he made? I think what is more dubious is that he seemingly has not put his assets in some kind of trust. It seems like a purely cosmetic change completed by changing a few legal definitions, but leaving the decision-making close at hand. That's just cheating.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Your comments only make me realize that it's actually worse than I thought.

Not in the sense that we see now, but if there is a serious slump, which is anything but impossible, we're going to be looking at a $45-$50 billion deficit.

We are at the end of a business cycle, or at least we can expect that, and with it, something of a slump.

There are stock market gains and people use that as an indicator of economic conditions, but in this case, it is all in anticipation of the promised big Trump tax cuts, If McCain manages to do to the tax cuts what he did to the post-Obamacare plan, the news might feel different.


That is the issue with deficit spending during a time of Economic Boon;
Especially when you are creating programs over timed projects.

With new programs you need to feed the beast forever;
At least when a highway is widened or paved and the last cheque is cut its done.

To your point;
What happens is revenue doesn't match expectations?

Based on what we have seen it will likely result in taxes rather spending cuts.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A look at the press coverage ...

Quote:
EXCLUSIVE: Morneau using ethics loophole to maintain ownership of shares in family business

Glen McGregor, Senior Political Correspondent, CTV National News
@glen_mcgregor

Published Tuesday, October 17, 2017 11:27AM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:02PM EDT
OTTAWA -- Finance Minister Bill Morneau continues to own shares in his family’s business Morneau Shepell through a corporate structure that keeps him from having to divest or put his shares in a blind trust, CTV News has learned.
Morneau has been able to do so by using a loophole in the ethics law that Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner Mary Dawson says she flagged long ago.
Dawson first confirmed on CTV’s Power Play that Morneau does not directly own the shares -- instead, he owns them indirectly through a holding company.

“He doesn’t hold them, the corporation holds them, that’s the legal entity,” Dawson told CTV News in a subsequent interview.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....sc=UGC9MVF


What strikes me is the obvious disconnect in regarding certain deductions in small businesses as "ünfair" (because they don't apply to the whole class of business, but the whole class of businesses take the deduction) and his own perfectly legal skullduggery.

THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THE MAN DOES AS A PROFESSION -- FINDING LOOPHOLES IN FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS. His firm also, presumably, vets possible investments and make judicious investment decisions. I am not trying to demonize him on that account. I am just pointing to the ironies.

On the other side we are being invited to heap disdain on the Conservatives for more serious reasons ...

Quote:
Conservatives name former Rebel Media director as 2019 campaign chair
Man who helped Andrew Scheer win party leadership set to run Tory federal election campaign
By Catherine Cullen, CBC News Posted: Oct 17, 2017 8:07 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 17, 2017 8:07 PM ET

Catherine Cullen
Parliamentary Bureau

Hamish Marshall is by all accounts bright and experienced. He has helped Andrew Scheer and the Conservative Party win before. But the man the federal Conservatives have hired to run their next election campaign comes with baggage that Scheer himself now wants to avoid — a connection to media outlet The Rebel.

If most Canadians know Marshall's name at all, it's probably because of that Rebel link. Like most campaign managers, the bespectacled and baby-faced Marshall stayed behind the scenes during Scheer's leadership race.

But in August, as growing controversy swirled around The Rebel's coverage of neo-Nazis and white nationalists in Charlottesville, Va., Scheer began to face questions about Marshall's role as a director of Rebel Media Ltd. and Scheer's own willingness to grant interviews to the outlet.

"So as long as the editorial direction of that particular institution remains as it is … I won't be granting those types of interviews," Scheer told reporters in mid-August, insisting that he wanted to focus on providing a positive vision that would bring Canadians together. [....]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....-1.4358811


I am telling you, Scheer is a dork. Here, he is dozily confirming the left-wing narrative.

Rebel Media is a tabloid-ish internet news site that actually provides a way young free-lancers can make a living reporting -- often in an amateurish way -- on the events that mainstream media don't cover. The biggest part of their value (to me) is simply that they take a camera into an actual demonstration, perhaps, in any case, it gives the viewer a rawer, more intimate sense of the event they cover.

They also serve to undermine the mainstream media narratives with footage and commentary.

The fact is that Rebel Media had a reporter at the very spot where the car ran into the crowd in Charlottesville. The reporter was confused because she thought she was at a 'right wing' rally and was looking for Antifa, and that sort of thing, but what she saw was young people with families, some of them with Black Lives Matter signs, not white supremacists. In fact, it was turning into a free speech rally. Does it matter what she said in her confusion? The camera was there!

Catherine Cullen is little more than a propagandist. She, and the mainstream media, in general, are demonizing the Rebel Media, and now they're trying to tar Scheer with an association with ... Ezra Levant's IT guy! So-oo lame.

Particularly when the Liberals can never really stop themselves from deceiving the people.

Catherine Cullen should be stripped of whatever credibility she has.

As for Andrew Scheer -- when's he going to show us something? When he has done as much as Ezra Levant has done for our side, he can start sniffing haughtily, but as far as I am concerned, he's anything but proven quantity.


Last edited by Bugs on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is when the rubber meets the road as it pertains to leadership.

It would be very easy to have Morneau resign and then simply continue to throw him under the bus citing the deployment of the new tax structure and not the structure itself was the problem.

This situation certainly would make it easy;
We aren't talking a $16 glass of orange juice here. This will continue to be an issue for the Liberals.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then ... we''re looking for our next finance minister ... hmmm

And it should be a woman. We have to get started on atoning for this horrible historical crime of having only male finance ministers for the last 150 years. Now it's the women's 150 years.

Crystia Freeland, again?

Or would they go back to rumpled Ralph Goodale?

That's a bad choice, image-wise. Rumpled Ralph doesn't really dress like a finance minister, does he? And he's from a small town. Is there not a metrosexual in the house that can do math? Or at least supervise people who can do math?

Do Liberals want a yokel as their minister of finance? That is the question! Isn't Ralph the kind of person they're trying to get rid of?

I don't think they have many choices.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they needed to replace him;

Best guess?
In theory you could move Chrystia Freeland from Foreign Affairs, you have an MP like Sven Spengemann in the back bench that could be elevated into cabinet to fill that vacuum.

Aside from that route, Looking at the cabinet: maybe Scott Brison? Navdeep Bains certainly has the chops as well, they could toss in François-Philippe Champagne, he was the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance before being moved into the Trade Portfolio?
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno ... Sven? Sven sounds awfully masculine to me, and white as well. In fact, you could hardly find a name that I would associate with whiteness more than Sven.

How about that Afghan ... er, Iranian ... er, who cares? ... woman who headed up the electoral reform initiative?

I laugh, actually. They have to keep Moreau, let's face it. I shouldn't dismiss Ralph, but I believe Ralph is an accountant and there's probably only so far he can go without blushing. You need a lawyer or a journalist for the kind of whoppers the next finance minister is going to be required to tell.

The end point of this is going to be Ontario on a national level, financially speaking. Think of today's revelations about Hydro financing, writ large.
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Finance Minister Morneau owns a secret french villa ?

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