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cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCO wrote:


Prince Edward Island MP Wayne Easter, who chairs the House of Commons finance committee, said the messaging made people less willing to listen.

"The way the department rollout happened, it looked like there was an attack on certain people, that they were cheats," he said. "These people have done nothing wrong. It got people's backs up right away."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....-1.3598115


I agree with Wayne Easter here;

This was a practice that has been acceptable for forty years and nine Prime Ministers, it has been the norm of small business to actually have control of their post taxed corporate revenue for four decades.

The roll out of this implied that small business was engaging in "tax avoidance" which is illegal and not and not "tax deferral" which is allowed by the tax act in many cases. That this practice was simply benefiting "fat cats" smoking cigars on their yachts fretting that they can't write off their Ivory back scratchers

When in reality it was effecting all small business the vast overwhelming majority of which make far less than the 150,000 threshold the Prime Minister was trumpeting that this change targeted.

These business owners have been doing nothing wrong and nothing illegal under the income tax act for decades and in many case this was at least a consideration when they started their business', however they were villainized as being tax cheats.

While it means nothing in the grand scheme of things its nice for someone within the Liberal Caucus especially someone who has been around as long as Wayne Easter to acknowledge that the way this was sold to the masses was hardly ideal.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Provinces challenge Trudeau government over contentious tax proposals


Andy Blatchford — Canadian Press

Friday, September 22nd, 2017



Provincial pressure is intensifying against the Trudeau government’s controversial tax-reform proposals, which have angered business owners, doctors and farmers across Canada.

On Friday, provincial leaders representing different political stripes – Liberals, New Democrats and Conservatives – spoke out about tax reforms recommended by Ottawa’s Liberal government.

Manitoba Premier Brian Pallister, flanked by business owners and a farmer, held an afternoon event in Winnipeg where he aired his frustration over the federal tax proposals.

On the East Coast, Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil expressed concern that the changes could hurt his province’s physician recruitment efforts and hamper the ability of small businesses to create financial cushions as protection during downturns. McNeil was scheduled to meet federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau later in the day to directly convey this message.

Out west, British Columbia Finance Minister Carole James said she didn’t think Ottawa had consulted enough on an issue that has spread fears of the “unintended consequences” on small business owners.

The comments by the provincial leaders added to waves of complaints that have come from a range of sectors – as well as backbench Liberal MPs. Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Dwight Ball has also said he thinks the tax changes would hurt his province.

At issue are Ottawa’s plan to eliminate several tax incentives designed for private corporations.

Morneau and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau have argued that the tax system unfairly encourages wealthy Canadians to incorporate, so they can get a better tax rate than middle-income earners.

They say the changes are meant to end tax advantages that some wealthy business owners have unfairly exploited and to ensure all Canadians have a level playing field.

But the federal explanations have yet to ease many concerns.

Pallister added his voice to the uproar out of concern about the potential damage he believes the changes could inflict on thousands of small- and medium-sized businesses and their employees.

“There is no room here for class warfare. The communications department in Ottawa have chosen to use language like ‘loopholes, tax evasion’ – recriminatory and accusation language that has no place in this discussion,” Pallister said.

“These proposed changes will take millions of dollars out of the hands of Manitobans and deliver them straight to Ottawa.”

In Halifax, McNeil urged Ottawa not to overlook the importance of these incentives for some small business owners and doctors who lack retirement plans.

“I’ve raised the issues that I’ve heard from Nova Scotians and I’ve raised my concerns that I have with them as well,” he said of his discussions with Ottawa.

In Vancouver, James told business leaders after a speech that she believes in closing what Ottawa has described as “tax loopholes.”

“But I also believe that there wasn’t good consultation done,” she said of the federal strategy.

“I have heard from many people, including many small business owners, that this doesn’t close loopholes. In fact, it causes unintended consequences for many small business owners.”

Morneau first released the government’s three-part tax plan in mid-July.

The package includes restrictions on the ability of business owners to reduce their tax rate by sprinkling their income to family members in lower tax brackets, even if those family members do not contribute to the company.

Morneau also proposed limits on the use of private corporations to make passive investments that are unrelated to the company. Another change would limit business owners’ ability to convert regular income of a corporation into capital gains, which are typically taxed at a lower rate.

On Friday, before his meeting with McNeil, Morneau said there was “some pretty obvious misinformation” circulating about the impacts of the proposals. Ottawa has been trying to bring clarity to the debate.

“Our objective here is to deal with wealthy people that are incorporating in order to find themselves at a lower tax rate than middle class Canadians,” Morneau said.

“Our goal, of course, is (a) long-term, fair tax system that provides a basis for people to invest, to make our country successful.”

He added that, for example, only business owners who have annual incomes of at least $150,000 can really benefit from the passive income incentive.

The government launched a 75-day public consultation period in July, which ends Oct. 2. Morneau has said he’s listening to feedback about the proposals and that he’s open to making changes, if necessary.

Manitoba Finance Minister Cameron Friesen wrote Morneau to demand that he hold off on the tax reforms until after the provincial finance ministers meet him in December.

A vocal opposition has grown since Morneau first announced the proposals in the summer.

An organized movement has argued the tax incentives targeted by the Liberals are critical for Canada’s economically crucial small-business sector. It insists the current tax structure is necessary for entrepreneurs, including those in the so-called middle class, who take personal financial risks when they decide to open a company.

– With files from Aly Thomson in Halifax, Geordon Omand in Vancouver and CJOB in Winnipeg

http://ipolitics.ca/2017/09/22.....proposals/
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

September 22, 2017

Morneau still shelters income in SIX numbered companies — while plotting small business tax grab

Sheila Gunn Reid
Rebel Commentator


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and finance minister Bill Morneau have been justifying their massive corporate tax grab by accusing farmers and other small business of incorporating, in order to cheat on their taxes and shelter their money in tax havens.



It’s a weird allegation from Morneau who, according to his Parliamentary Ethics Disclosure, has six companies to shelter his income, including the dividend he earns from shares in the family business, Morneau Shepell.

Bill Morneau said he sold off his 180,255 common shares in Morneau Shepell before he won his Liberal nomination. Those shares at the time were valued at $3 million.

But, assuming he hasn’t liquidated them, Morneau still indirectly owns 2,066,408 common shares in Morneau Shepell, worth about $32 million, through one of his numbered companies in Alberta.

And if you are a shareholder of Morneau Shepell, today you got some good news:

Your monthly dividend is being paid out on October 16. You’ll be making 6.5 cents per share!

Which means, if he hasn’t sold, Morneau’s September dividend for his shares in his family company will be over $134,000 — paid into that Alberta holding company he controls.

But if a farmer uses a dividend to pay for his child’s university education, according to Morneau, he’s a tax cheat.


https://www.therebel.media/morneau_still_shelters_income_in_six_numbered_companies
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tax reform critics sound off as Finance committee hearings begin



Kelsey Johnson

Tuesday, September 26th, 2017




Canadian business leaders, farm groups and tax experts brought their opposition to the Liberals’ proposed tax changes to the House of Commons finance committee Tuesday morning, arguing the current proposal is causing serious uncertainty across the country.

“We are deeply worried,” Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses CEO Dan Kelly said, adding most incorporated small businesses in Canada will be affected by at least one of the tax proposals being put forward, regardless of income level.

The Liberals want to change the way Canadian-controlled private corporations are taxed. The proposals, first unveiled in the middle of July, are vehemently opposed by Canadian doctors,...


http://ipolitics.ca/2017/09/26.....ngs-begin/
RCO





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quebec shared concerns with feds over tax proposals, right from the start

Quebec Finance Minister Carlos Leitao
Carlos Leitao says he hopes Ottawa will adjust its tax plan, which is still in the consultation stage.



Andy Blatchford, The Canadian Press
Published Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:54PM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, September 26, 2017 4:58PM EDT


NEW YORK -- Quebec immediately brought some concerns to the federal government after Ottawa released a package of proposed tax reforms, the province's finance minister said Tuesday.

Carlos Leitao told The Canadian Press that he agrees with the overall goals of the tax proposals, which Ottawa argues are designed to inject more fairness in the system for the so-called middle class.

But Leitao is worried about the impact the changes could have on the agricultural sector, particularly when it comes to how the reform might complicate the transfer of farms within families.


"I think that merits some significant changes," he said of proposed elements that could make it easier for farmers to sell their businesses to outsiders rather than passing them along to close relatives, like a son or daughter.

"That transfer is not being made to avoid taxes, that transfer is being made so that the business can stay in family hands."

Quebec shared its concerns about the proposals with Ottawa "right from the start" after federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau released the plan in mid-July, Leitao said.

Now, Quebec hopes the Trudeau government will adjust this part of its plan, which will be under consultation until next week.

"As it stands now, the federal proposal probably causes some confusion in (the agricultural) sector and, regarding small businesses, I think there's also a bit of confusion," Leitao said in New York after he appeared at an investors' conference hosted by Bloomberg.

"Those things, I think, should be adjusted. And I think the federal government is open to coming with some amendments."

Morneau has said he's listening to feedback and that the Trudeau government has indeed signalled it is open to making changes, if necessary.

On Monday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau maintained he had no intention of stifling growth for small businesses and start-ups with the tax proposals. Trudeau added that it's important to encourage entrepreneurs and risk takers.

Selling the plan hasn't been easy for Ottawa.

The Liberal government has been engaged in a communications war over the reforms, which it has insisted would end tax advantages unfairly exploited by some wealthy business owners.

The proposals have been met by vocal opposition from numerous areas, including many small business owners, tech-sector players, tax planners and doctors.

An organized movement has argued the tax incentives targeted by the Liberals are critical for Canada's economically crucial small-business sector.

It insists the current tax structure is necessary for entrepreneurs, including those in the so-called middle class, who take personal financial risks when they decide to open a company.

The federal government has also felt growing pressure over the proposals from some of the provinces, including British Columbia, Manitoba, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador.

The Liberal tax-reform package includes restrictions on the ability of business owners to reduce their tax rate by sprinkling their income to family members in lower tax brackets, even if those family members do not contribute to the company.

Morneau also proposed limits on the use of private corporations to make passive investments that are unrelated to the company. Another change would limit business owners' ability to convert regular income of a corporation into capital gains, which are typically taxed at a lower rate.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics.....-1.3607164
RCO





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votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaker rejects Tories' request for emergency debate on tax changes

Janice Dickson

Wednesday, September 27th, 2017



Deputy Speaker Bruce Stanton rejected the Tories’ request to hold an emergency debate on the Liberal government’s proposed tax changes.

Conservative finance critic Pierre Poilievre moved a motion requesting that the House hold an emergency debate following question period Wednesday.

Poilieve said the finance minister’s “unfair tax changes will lead to dire consequences” for local businesses and family farms. He said the proposed changes have been subjected to intense media and opposition scrutiny and they deserve the same attention inside the Commons.

Deputy Speaker Stanton said Poilievre’s request “doesn’t quite” meet the necessary requirements for an emergency debate.

The proposed...


http://ipolitics.ca/2017/09/27.....x-changes/
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morneau admits his tax reform package has 'issues'

‘We need to take into account what people are telling us’ finance minister says in town hall


Kelsey Johnson

Wednesday, September 27th, 2017




The Liberals’ proposed tax plan is not perfect and will need changes in some areas, Finance Minister Bill Morneau said Wednesday.

“We need to take into account what people are telling us,” Morneau said during a tele-town hall broadcast via Facebook from Toronto. “That’s important because we know there are some ideas that we need to consider. We know there are some issues around measures that were proposed that need to be considered.

“We will do that.”

In July, the Liberals unveiled a proposed tax policy that would change how Canadian-controlled corporations are taxed. The policy includes potential changes to taxation...


http://ipolitics.ca/2017/09/27.....as-issues/
Bugs





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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a shell game. There are "issues" with the tax changes? No, they aren't. It's the changes themselves that are the issue. He is saying that he will tinker with something, but how do you 'tinker' with allowing family meme to get wages from a family business?

This is just a way of pulling the teeth of protest.
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Ivison: Accusations Morneau breached conflict-of-interest screen raise tension over tax reforms

There will be no comfort for Morneau or his leader until the revised proposals emerge and make clear that they only apply to the wealthiest Canadians


John Ivison
John Ivison


September 28, 2017
6:28 PM EDT


The late Doug Finley, who was Stephen Harper’s backroom general, was asked shortly before his death in May 2013 how best to sabotage Justin Trudeau, who had recently been elected Liberal leader.

Having helped torpedo the ambitions of three of Trudeau’s predecessors, Finley had some form when it came to attack ads. He harrumphed in typical Finley fashion and proposed the campaign should focus on the Liberal leader’s wealth and lack of first-hand experience of the lives of the people he was championing. The suggested pay-off line: “He’s not like you.”

Four years, and one election defeat later, the Conservatives have finally taken him up on the idea.

Not only is the Prime Minister’s “family fortune” the focus of opposition attacks over the government’s proposed tax reforms, but the finance minister’s wealth is also being contrasted with the struggles faced by mom-and-pop business-owners and farmers, who fear they will be side-swiped by the proposed changes to private corporations.


It’s all slightly unseemly, coming from a party that claims it is the Trudeau Liberals who are vilifying the rich and engaging in class warfare.

But it’s working.

A new poll from the Angus Reid Institute found the number of voters who believe it is “time for change” has risen to 45 per cent, against 34 per cent who don’t agree. The same poll had Conservative leader Andrew Scheer as the federal-party leader best suited to deal with economic policy.

A new front opened Thursday when the Conservatives raised the issue of conflict of interest.

When he became finance minister, Bill Morneau set up a conflict-of-interest screen with ethics commissioner Mary Dawson “to assist with my obligation to abstain from any participation in any matters of decisions, other than those of a general application, relating to Morneau Shepell Inc.,” where until his election in October 2015 he had been executive chair.


Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer rises during question period in the House of Commons on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Wednesday, Sept.27, 2017. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Adrian Wyld

During question period, Conservative after Conservative pointed out that earlier in the day at a meeting of the finance committee, expert testimony had indicated that Morneau Shepell would be one of the main beneficiaries of the move to increase taxes on passive investment in private corporations.

“The minister said he would recuse himself. Why did he not recuse himself when the proposals so clearly affect his family company?” asked Candice Bergen, the Conservative House leader.

Morneau has previously refused to talk about his own finances. He responded to Bergen by saying that taxes affect all Canadians and all business — apparently a reference to the “general application” provision in the conflict-of-interest screen.


The minister said he would recuse himself. Why did he not recuse himself when the proposals so clearly affect his family company?

-
He did tell the Globe and Mail that he found it “absolutely absurd” to suggest that the changes would benefit Morneau Shepell because its sale of individual pension plans represented “less than 1 per cent of revenues” when he was the boss.

But it’s likely to be a lot more than 1 per cent once these proposals pass through the House.

Cathren Ronberg, communications director at Morneau Shepell, said that since his resignation the finance minister has had no involvement with the company and his shares have been held in a blind trust. Asked how much of the public-owned company is owned by Morneau and his family, Ronberg said the company has no knowledge of whether the blind trust continues to own shares.


Finance Minister Bill Morneau takes questions as the Liberal cabinet meets in St. John’s, N.L. on Tuesday, Sept. 12, 2017. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Andrew Vaughan

I don’t buy conspiracy theories — “the exhaust fumes of democracy,” in the words of Christopher Hitchens.

The finance department was trying to flog the proposals to tax private corporations long before Morneau entered politics. But it does look too cozy, and provides buckshot for the drive-by smear-merchants in the opposition ranks.

The finance committee meeting, where Morneau was star witness, offered fresh indications of the how much trouble the government is in. Whereas to this point the reforms have been about “fairness,” apparently they are now also intended to “encourage investment” by incentivizing the active use of capital by taxing its passive use more heavily.

Morneau went further than he has gone before in offering hints about the concessions to come after the public consultation period ends Monday.

“We are always open to better ways to fix the problems identified in our consultations. But we are going to fix them,” Morneau told the committee.
See Also Kelly McParland: Canadians might have accepted tax reforms if Liberals hadn’t ignited a class war
Liberal tax reforms to be debated in Senate committee, which senators say is not made up of ‘nitwits’
Morneau talks of ‘technical fixes’ to reassure farmers over tax proposals

Specifically, he said he’d heard from farmers about the need to keep money in private corporations to cope with down-years and equipment purchases. He added he is conscious about concerns that the proposals would make passing the family farm on to the next generation more expensive than selling it to a third party. “There is nothing intended to make it more difficult to pass the farm to the next generation. We will make sure they are not concerned and I hope they can take some comfort from this,” he said.

But there will be no comfort for Morneau or his leader until the revised proposals emerge and make clear that they only apply to the wealthiest Canadians.

Pierre Poilievre, the Conservative finance critic, was born to the role of political agent-provocateur and has been effective in inciting opinion against the government.

“Can you at all understand why owners of corner stores or family farms are offended that you would impose higher taxes on their businesses but multi-million companies don’t pay a penny?” he asked Morneau.

The response — “I’m happy to talk about the approach taken to tax fairness,” etc. etc. — indicated the finance minister has a tin ear when it comes to the guiding principle of politics, taking the fear out of common life.

The explanation may be simple: neither he nor his leader are really like you.


http://nationalpost.com/opinio.....ax-reforms
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is starting to hurt the Liberals on a wider scale than just those directly involved. I think it is 'damaging the Liberal brand' as they say these days. I don't know if people are seeing it as another promise is being broken, or if it's something else. What strikes me is that the Liberals are expecting the public to have a 'class warfare' reaction. They are prepared for that.

But people are not saying "Good, those rich people are gonna get it now, they have had it too good for too long." If anything, they're thinking more along the lines of -- why are they going after my doctor? Or something like that.

And then there is always the juicy detail that our finance minister and his family before him have been selling expert advice on tax avoidance for decades, and using elaborate schemes themselves. Or that our PM is a trust-fund recipient? (What is a trust fund but a tax-avoidance measure?)

And what makes a feckless trust fund recipient think he has any insight into what is "fair" about who gets what on this earth, anyway?

It just starts to stink of doubletalk. People see the smugly patronizing attitudes that seem to lie behind the policies of this government time and time again. It is starting to become boring.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When "taxing the rich" involved making those fat cats in the gated homes in Rosedale pay a few more bucks I don't think the average voter cared as much.

However when you start going after small business en mass you start to effect "everyone's" neighbors.

When it stops being about the folks in Ivory Towers and starts being about the guy who lives in the corner and installs carpet who leaves his house every morning at 5AM and is home at 7PM every night you put a face on this.

These attacks on business are not just doctors and lawyers, that's just Liberal marketing.

Its the guy who owns the landscaping company who helped you lay your walkway last summer, its the nice lady down the street who owns a photography studio, its the mom and pop shop at the corner your kids ride their bikes to in the summer and get freezies.

The Liberals are marketing this as "tax fairness", however their "tax fairness" also means revenue generation and for a government whose fiscal predictions during the election were so far off base, its fairly clear why they need the revenue.

They ran out of your money,

The problem with being the "fun uncle who buys you cool stuff" when he isn't buying you cool stuff, he isn't that fun.
RCO





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votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( morneau held a town hall on the tax issue and it appears to have mostly been a disaster )



Morneau's tax reform town hall devolves into 'shouting match,' as consultations wind down

The finance minister's colleague, Karina Gould, tried to maintain calm even as time was wrapping up with several people still lined up at microphones



Finance Minister Bill Morneau.



The Canadian Press
The Canadian Press


September 29, 2017
1:44 PM EDT



OTTAWA — Canada’s finance minister got a grilling Friday from taxpayers who are boiling mad about the Liberal government’s proposed tax changes for small businesses.

Bill Morneau was in Oakville, Ont., for a town hall meeting where a question-and-answer session boiled over more than once into a shouting match. Some were bellowing at Morneau to answer their questions, while others tried to shout them down to let the minister talk.

All the while, Morneau’s fellow cabinet minister, Karina Gould, tried to maintain calm even as time was wrapping up with several people still lined up at microphones, anxious to give the finance minister a piece of their minds.

Morneau sat silently near the end of hour-long session as person after person approached the microphones in the room to argue against the measures.

“This is not the first room like this that I’ve sat in,” he said at the start of his closing remarks.


He brought up one question that stood out to him about what the government planned to do next, only to be asked by more than one person to answer it directly, once and for all.


You wouldn't expect us to come to policy decisions on the fly.

- Finance Minister Bill Morneau



“Just to be clear, I’m trying to say what we’re focused on. I’m certainly not going to address the tax policy issues that we may consider after that. You can’t do that.

“You wouldn’t expect us to come to policy decisions on the fly,” he said, at which point the uproar began anew, and Gould had to ask the audience to let Morneau finish.

The Liberals have faced heated opposition to their plan ever since Morneau unveiled the proposed changes over the summer, with questions from within the Liberal caucus.

Opponents of the reforms insist the changes would hurt Canadians at different income levels and from many different sectors, including doctors, farmers and small business owners.

The rhetoric has become even more heated in recent days as the Opposition Conservatives have linked the changes to Morneau’s family company, Morneau Shepell, which offers individual pension plans. One expert told the Commons finance committee those kind of plans could become more appealing if the tax proposals are implemented as-is.

Morneau brushed off the questions about his family business, which he helped run before entering politics.

“I expect that when people have a strongly held point of view, they’ll use multiple tactics to try and make that point of view heard. That’s what it means to be a politician.”


Morneau has been waging a public relations to reassure different sectors of the country concerned at how the changes would affect them. On Thursday, he said technical fixes were in the works to address farmers’ concerns that the changes would impair their ability to bequeath the family farm to the next generation.

During the Oakville meeting, Morneau told the audience the changes would only apply “on a go-forward basis” and that the Liberals would “protect what’s been done in the past.”

Speaking afterwards, Morneau said the government’s messaging on the proposed changes has turned into a game of broken telephone.

Many people seem to be focused on changes to things like income sprinkling and passive investments — strategies that probably don’t apply to them because they are used by only a small subset of tax filers, he said.

“We’ve just been unable to get through the message that we want to keep small business tax rates low, that people could be looking at only some advantages that are available to only a very small subset of pretty wealthy Canadian controlled private corporations and concerned that impacts everyone.”

Conservative finance critic Pierre Poilievre called the town hall meeting a “rendezvous with reality” for Morneau. Poilievre summarized what he heard from the meeting: Morneau’s “plan will not only pick their pockets, but screw up their life plans.”

Morneau isn’t ready to say what, if any, changes the Liberals will make to the proposal — only that he will keep listening to Canadians.

The issue will be on the agenda next week when Prime Minister Justin Trudeau meets with his provincial counterparts.

http://nationalpost.com/news/p.....rns-heated
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's a pretty hard 'sell' -- that the Liberals are increasing the taxes on small business as part of their larger efforts to keep business taxes low.

If Morneau is smart -- and he must be -- he will understand that there is a resistance to tax increases out there, and perhaps some people, at least the business people, are getting uncomfortable with the way things are going.

Will Gerald Bull pay any attention? That's the question. He has based his whole career on busting through the balanced budget standard. From the first days of the McGuinty government, when they tried to reinstate a OHIP 'premium' about three months into their first term. McGuinty had famously campaigned on a Ï-won't-lower-your-taxes-but-I-won't-raise-them-either promise.

He's always succeeded before. Why wouldn't he go for it again?
RCO





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

( there is now speculation the liberals might punish the 1 liberal mp who voted in favour of a cpc motion asking for more consultations )


Liberal MP told he could face 'consequences' for breaking party ranks over small business tax changes

'I just can't support a process that was only 75 days long that pitted people against each other'

By John Paul Tasker, CBC News Posted: Oct 04, 2017 12:50 PM ET| Last Updated: Oct 04, 2017 6:06 PM ET

Saint John—Rothesay MP Wayne Long says he could not sit idly by as the government pushes ahead with changes that could have consequences for proprietors in his riding.


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has shown he's prepared to accept some backbench grumbling about his small business tax reform plans — but only to a point.

A Liberal MP who voted against the government on a Conservative motion related to the small business tax changes has been told he could face "consequences" for breaking party ranks.

Saint John–Rothesay MP Wayne Long supported a failed Tory move Tuesday that would have extended the consultation period on the government's proposed changes to the small business tax regime.


Long spoke to Liberal whip Pablo Rodriquez this morning, who indicated they were considering repercussions for such a vote.

"It's difficult conversations, I don't know if there will be consequences, but I have been told there may be consequences and I'm certainly prepared and ready to accept any decision the party makes," Long said in an interview with CBC News Wednesday.

"It wasn't a surprise, it wasn't said in a threatening tone, not at all. But the reality of it is, we're in unchartered grounds here. I came from being part owner and president of the Saint John Sea Dogs, a major junior hockey club, and I understand that sometimes when somebody breaks out of a norm of a team the powers that be have to look at that and they have to do what's best for the team."

Kyoto 20070214 TOPIX
A spokesperson for Liberal whip Pablo Rodriguez said they do not comment on "internal matters." (Fred Chartrand/Canadian Press)

Asked for comment, a spokesperson for Rodriquez said they "don't comment on internal related matters."

Long said he would be "disappointed" if he is kicked out of caucus as he still broadly supports the government's agenda.

But Long said he could not sit idly by as the government pushes ahead with changes that could have consequences for proprietors in his riding, a move that opens a chink in Liberal armour.


'My constituents asked loud and clear for an extension, there's no way I could stand up in the House of Commons and vote against extending the process. I just couldn't do it'

- Wayne Long, Liberal MP

"I just can't support a process that was only 75 days long that pitted people against each other. Doctors against nurses, put farmers on the defensive, and made lawyers, small business and professionals feel vilified," the backbencher said.

"It's not who we are as a party [or] what I believe in. I'm sorry to my colleagues who I know I've put in a very awkward position. I deeply regret this as you are such great representatives."

In voting for the Conservative motion, Long defied a whipped vote on a Liberal platform commitment. In the 2015 election campaign, the party promised to crack down on high-income earners using Canadian-controlled private corporations to reduce personal income taxes.

The Liberal government has shown a tolerance for MPs voting against the government line on private member's bills, and on legislation that was not explicitly promised in the last campaign, but standing against a major government initiative could be less warmly received.

At least one of Long's colleagues, Quebec MP Marc Miller, said while the New Brunswicker is a personal friend, he thinks something should follow such an act of defiance.

"Mr. Long took a very aggressive position and I believe there should be consequences, but I wouldn't exclude Wayne from my party. He's an extreme asset to it ... but I'm a firm believer in party discipline," Miller said.

Question Period 20171003
Finance Minister Bill Morneau has said he is open to tweaks to his small business tax proposals. (Fred Chartrand/Canadian Press)

Finance Minister Bill Morneau announced the tax proposals in mid-July. The consultation period ended Oct. 2.

The Conservative motion would have extended consultation until Jan. 31, 2018 — because of the "drastic negative impact on small- and medium-sized businesses," the motion said — but it was defeated in the House of Commons.

'I need to look in the mirror'

Long said he did a "massive amount of consulting" with constituents, who were overwhelmingly opposed to the changes. He said his riding has the largest concentration of small businesses in the country, and many doctors who work at the regional hospital.

Long said Tuesday he was elected by constituents of his Saint John riding to represent their views in Ottawa, not simply represent Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government in New Brunswick.


Liberal MP slams 'tainted' tax reform consultations1:34

"My constituents asked loud and clear for an extension, there's no way I could stand up in the House of Commons and vote against extending the process. I just couldn't do it. I need to be true to myself, I need to follow my heart, and, in the end, I need to look in the mirror."

Finance Minister Bill Morneau's proposals have faced an onslaught of criticism, from farmers, to doctors, to tax professionals, premiers and other backbench Liberal MPs. Morneau signaled Tuesday he is now prepared to make changes to the proposals based on the feedback the government collected during the consultation period.

But Morneau was not at the Liberal caucus meeting Wednesday to actually explain to his fellow MPs — many of whom have been jittery for weeks about the changes — what tweaks he would be prepared to make.

This is the not the first time Long has taken a stance against changes that would tweak rules around income sprinkling and curtail passive investments — a tax-planning measure some use to shelter money earmarked for retirement.

The MP has said he think it's perfectly legitimate to use the current tax tools. "I believe that small business owners have that right because of the risks they're taking, for the people they're employing," Long said in an interview with CBC News last month.

"You can split hairs and say, well they can invest in an RRSP and they can still have money over in their passive account, but my philosophy is they deserve to have that money there."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politic.....39?cmp=rss
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Wayne Long was expelled from the Liberal Caucus over this.

They had MPs to spare and will likely add two more in pending by-elections;
He will serve as an example to anyone who wants to vote against the party line.
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Concerns mount over Morneau's proposed tax changes

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