Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4155
Reputation: 238.9
votes: 8

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: A Marijuana Control Board for Ontario? Reply with quote

Oh-.oh ... the people who brought us $billion dollar boondoggles like the e-health scandal, or the "green energy"debacle, let alone the ORANG air-ambulance goof-up ... (I don't even mention the cancelled gas plants) ... are making plans to cash in the the tax windfall that legalized monopoly government marijuana will surely bring.

This is going to be a comic opera.

If it goes full LCBO, there will be marijuana articles appearing in the LCBO's 'lifestyle' magazine, along with pot-infused wines, perhaps, along with promotional materials featuring logos of marijuana companies. It'll have 'brands' like Johnny Walker Black Label, reportedly the scotch preferred by the Saudi royal family!

Quote:
Pot black market wider and deeper than government’s half-hearted plans: Hébert

If anything over the next few years, the legalized sale of marijuana stands to fatten the golden goose that is the black market rather than kill it.

By CHANTAL HÉBERT
National Affairs Columnist
Fri., Sept. 8, 2017
Canada is edging closer to the July 2018 target date for the legalization of marijuana in a haze of political smoke.

With every new development, the gap between the political narrative attending the initiative and its actual implementation is harder to bridge.

Take the federal government’s talking points. They have greatly evolved since Justin Trudeau was campaigning on university campuses in the last election campaign. Logic has not always benefited from that evolution.

To hear the prime minister these days, the point of the policy is to make it harder for minors to buy marijuana. Clearly, Canada is making its peace with marijuana the better to fight it.

According to Trudeau, that will be achieved by imposing stiffer penalties on those who sell weed illegally and/or drive under the influence. There is a commitment to government-funded public education campaigns to drive home the health risks associated with marijuana.

Fair enough, but those are all measures a health-conscious federal government could have undertaken without jumping through the hoops of legalizing the substance.

The oft-missing link in the Liberal talking points is how Trudeau’s stated goal ties in with the legal sale of marijuana.

Proponents of the plan talk of the need to replace a thriving underground market with a regulated one. The calculation, or at least the hope, is that legal competition will accomplish what judicial repression has so far failed to achieve. But to do that one must be willing to use means on par with policy ambitions.

In the federal/provincial division of labour, setting the legal marijuana business on a competitive footing is left to the discretion of individual provinces. It is a politically uncomfortable task for which none is particularly enthusiastic.

Cue the government of Ontario.

On Friday it became the first to come up with a template to sell marijuana.

As Canada’s largest province, Ontario stands to set the tone for much of the rest of the country. Many of its sister provinces are still seeking advice from experts and/or sounding out constituents.

Quebec, for instance, has yet to decide something as basic as whether to apply the legal age to buy alcohol to marijuana. Ontario is set to use age 19 for both categories.

But the Ontario blueprint falls well short of the purported goal of driving out of business those who sell weed illegally.

If anything over the next few years, it stands to fatten the golden goose that is the marijuana black market rather than kill it.

The plan is to establish a government monopoly on the selling of marijuana. The LCBO would run the operation in stores distinct from its liquor outlets. Ontario would open 80 pot shops by July 1, 2019 and another 70 over the following year.

It would take a lot more than 150 outlets and quite a bit longer than two years to flood the market with legal marijuana in a province the size of Ontario.

For the sake of comparison, Colorado, with a population of less than six million people, initially opened 136 venues for the purpose of legally selling marijuana.

Ontario, with more than double that population and a larger territory, is planning to offer little more than the same number. It is as if a cheese artisan set out to drive Kraft out of business by setting up a stall at the St. Lawrence market in Toronto.

At the same time Ontario would clamp down on illegal storefront dispensaries.

Under the guise of creating a state-run monopoly, the province is running the risk of creating more demand for the services of the very people it purports to drive out of business.

I have never tried marijuana. Not even in high school when everyone else seemed to be partaking in the weed experience. But that was not for lack of availability.

I cannot think of a time at any point in my adult life when I could not have easily procured a joint. That is particularly true of the period over which I was raising teenagers.

Unless they have been living on another planet, the provincial and federal politicians who are debating the upcoming legalization of marijuana must be familiar with the omnipresence and the reach of the underground market. And they must know that half-hearted measures tend to yield costly failures.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/09/08/pot-black-market-wider-and-deeper-than-governments-half-hearted-plans-hbert.html


They should also be aware of how soft the price is.

These are the facts. At present, marijuana is sold is a highly protected market. Tariffs include fines, time in jail, and criminal records. I doubt if there is an agricultural product on earth that gets the prices marijuana gets -- unless it is poppies. My point is that when that tariff disappears, or to the degree that it disappears, the price will go down. You watch.

Why? Because when you have a greenhouse of marijuana going to seed, you have to sell it, and you want to sell it before it loses its punch. Next month's crop looks abundant. If the government tries to limit legal production to licensed groups, others will grow it.

(By the way, does anyone remember George Smitherman? You know, the guy behind the ORANG mess, and the Green Energy boondoggle, the openly gay politician whose 'wife' committed suicide rather than go on with him ... the guy that led people to vote for Rob Ford ... guess what he's doing now! He's on the board of a marijuana growing company!)

But the government is singularly incapable of recognizing its own mistakes. If prices drop, they will increase criminal penalties of the 'black market', and treat them like they used to treat bootleggers. There is essentially zero 'heat' on these people now, so in what sense will that be 'legalization' of anything?

What they are really doing is trying to create a state monopoly of the marijuana market, like they have already done with beer and liquor (in Ontario). And it won't be worth the effort. It's too easy to grow.
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6288
Reputation: 229.3
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't understand why we'd even need a Cannabis control board in Ontario , it seems that its only reason for existence would be so the government could get more of the revenue , not just the tax revenue but whatever profit they could make from actually selling the stuff in there stores

you have to think if they had a monopoly on the "legal sales " that could eventually amount to a fairly large amount of revenue . although there would always be a large black market even if there is legal places to buy it


it seems clear to me the marijuana people ( bob emery and cannabis culture stores ) have already clearly demonstrated they could run this industry themselves and government intervention is not needed , which is why it seems clear the people in government see it as a potential cash cow and want all the revenue for themselves , why else try and get a province wide monopoly on something that realistically should be left to so called craft industry growers and independent stores downtown
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4155
Reputation: 238.9
votes: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the "problems" in implementing this so-called legalization are due to the fact that the government wants to establish monopolies in marijuana, and get a tax windfall.

None of the problems are due to the growers, sellers, and users, who are all eagerly awaiting the moment the government steps out of the way. They are developing new marijuana products, like hash-laced baked goods, for instance, and perhaps putting it in alcoholic beverages. They are getting hooked up with MasterCard, and all of that stuff.

The fact is -- this is not a 'legalization' in the sense most people understood it during the election campaign. It is the nationalization of a criminal enterprise, a government takeover justified by to some with the idea that different authorities from the police would exercise more control, not less, with monopolistic policies. They pacified part of the resistance with the promise that they would torture stoners the way they torture cigarette smokers.

And perhaps, at the same time, addressing the yawning revenue gap that Liberal free-spending habits have opened up. In other words, it's just another way of making the poor pay disproportionately for the excesses of cabinet members.

It will a price-fixing scheme backed up by the police. You watch -- there will be more enforcement on the 'black market' producers than there is now, at least in Ontario, The police will be called on to supervise the garden plots, to see who's medically licensed to grow. (It could get very intrusive if they get suspicious about your false dieffenbachia, but we are probably protected by the laziness of the police. Getting out of a cruiser seems hard when you sit in a car all shift.)

More likely, the independent producer will become like bootleggers were in the olde days. Police will hound them, to no practical effect.

None of this will work. it won't work because the LCBO is a retail organization, no longer a temperance organization. In no time, they will be featuring marijuana in their life-style magazine, directing you to the exactly right port to go with Blueberry weed.

When I was a kid, I remember sitting in the car while my dad went in to buy a fifth or rye. He had to have a license, and sign an order, so his drinking could be monitored. And he was legally required to take it directly home. In that world, bootleggers prospered. That's what I am forseeing.

But that is how much the LCBO has changed its mission since it was founded.

It defies logic that you expect a retail organization to pass up sales. As an example, the Beer Store now sells beer in handy drink-while-you-drive single bottles. (Some of them are more than a liter, and have an amped up alcohol content.) They promote beer drinking through special products, like wrap-around vinyl labels that will make a "Blue" look like a "Pepsi". So naturally, marijuana stores will want to know if they can sell single pre-rolled joints ... or perhaps bong hits in the back room ... a similar 'smoke-and-go' deal, a kind of Labatt's Ice for on-the-job tokers and high school students. How great a temptation will that be when kids in the school are already doing that?

And the government might come down hard on that idea ... for a little while. But when they do, they will increase the black market, and if they don't, they will end up promoting marijuana. You watch.

It's better the way it is.
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6288
Reputation: 229.3
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ontario government monopoly on pot ripped


The Canadian Press

First posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 02:25 PM EDT | Updated: Monday, September 11, 2017 02:30 PM EDT



TORONTO - Clients and advocates of storefront dispensaries say buying marijuana exclusively from stores regulated by Ontario’s provincial government will mean fewer options for medicinal users, little progress on eliminating the black market, and worse weed.

On Friday, Ontario became the first province to announce its plan for the sale and distribution of legalized marijuana. It will be sold through the Liquor Control Board of Ontario and regulated similarly to how the province sells alcohol. Users must be over the age of 19, and are prohibited from consuming pot outside of private residences. The province will open 40 stores by next summer, when marijuana is legalized, and has said it will continue to crack down on illicit dispensaries, which will continue to be illegal.

“At first I was pretty happy that they had a plan,” says Peter Thurley, who uses marijuana to reduce his consumption of opioids, which he was prescribed to help him manage the pain from a burst bowel. “But I quickly came to realize that that the plan as it’s laid out is essentially a full government monopoly.”

Attorney General Yasir Naqvi has said the province won’t act punitively, and will not criminally charge underage users caught with small amounts of marijuana.

But Thurley says he’s suspicious of that aim, given the federal government’s announcement Friday that they will spend upward of $274 million on enforcement.

“The government is talking about a public health approach on one hand, while the reality is, this was always going to be about government enforcement,” he says.

Leu Grant, who volunteers at Canna Connoisseurs in Toronto, agrees. Closing down community dispensaries and asking users to purchase weed from the government isn’t in the interest of consumers, she says.

“I think it’s very important to think about who this is benefiting,” she says. “It’s not really for accessibility of people who are sick.”

Grant says the regulation prohibiting the public consumption of marijuana signifies that the province isn’t prioritizing medicinal users. “A person who needs their medicine, and it happens to be marijuana, why can’t they take their medicine in a park?” she says.

“I would like to ask them why we’re allowed to smoke toxic cigarettes and drink alcohol in public, but not receive medicine,” says Sonya Serafin, another volunteer at Canna Connoisseurs.

Connoisseurs dispenses marijuana only to prescription holders, and Grant says she sees people every day who benefit from the knowledge of the dispensary’s staff. Putting experienced workers out of a job and training new employees about marijuana is counterproductive, she says.

“How much does the government really know about growing?” she says. “The people who know the most about the growing, and the plant, and how to care for it, are people who have been criminalized. So now what we’re left with is people who don’t know anything, in suits, and they’re the ones who are benefiting.”

Thurley says she would like someone behind the counter who is knowledgeable about marijuana.

“It doesn’t make sense to bring in a whole host of new hires and set the system out in such a way that people who actually know about cannabis are excluded from the conversation.”

An inferior product could have significant repercussions, Grant says, because dissatisfaction with the government-sanctioned product could fuel more interest in black-market pot.

The price of pot could have similar consequences. The government hasn’t yet said how they plan to price or tax marijuana. “If they don’t make it cheap enough, then people are still going to be buying on the street,” says Serafin. “Is this really going to be helping?”

Because only 40 stores in the province will be open by next year, lack of accessibility will also be a deterrent for some users, Thurley says. If legal weed is both harder and more expensive to purchase, users are more likely to buy illegally.

“Most of (the new stores) will be in the GTA,” he says. “Imagine the kid from Huron County. Are they going to travel an hour and a half to Kitchener or London to pick up legal cannabis? Or are they going to go to the dealer that they’ve always gone to down the street?”

The government has said it will sell marijuana online to people who don’t live near major cities, but that’s still less convenient than a neighbourhood pot dealer, Thurley says.

He adds he would like to the see the government spend more money on cannabis research than on enforcement.

“There are so many opportunities here for the provincial government to do it right,” he says. “I would urge them that there’s no shame in pulling back and saying, you know what, we got this wrong.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2017.....pot-ripped
RCO





Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6288
Reputation: 229.3
votes: 3
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kelly McParland: So Wynne's grand plan was unionizing your drug dealer

Wynne said pot sales will be run like liquor, via government outlets staffed by unionized employees. “I’m pretty pleased," said union boss Smokey Thomas. No kidding



Minister of Finance, Charles Sousa, centre, Attorney General, Yasir Naqvi, right, and Minister of Health and Long-Term Care, Eric Hoskins speak during a press conference where they detailed Ontario's solution for recreational marijuana sales, in Toronto on Friday, September 8, 2017. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Christopher Katsarov



Kelly McParland
Kelly McParland



September 11, 2017
9:41 AM EDT




Anyone who thought Ontario would ever allow private enterprise to get involved in operating legal marijuana outlets doesn’t know the Liberal party of Premier Kathleen Wynne very well.

Wynne announced Friday that the pot business will be run just like the liquor business, via government outlets staffed by unionized employees. “I’m pretty pleased with what the plan looks like so far,” confessed Warren (Smokey) Thomas, president of the Ontario Public Service Employees Union, who has been pushing hard to keep pot a union-operated business. “I’ve been lobbying the government for a long time on this, so I like to think we had some influence.”

Thomas is the same union boss who groused that fellow labour honchos “sold their souls to the Liberals” by campaigning for Wynne in the last election. He was sounding a lot happier after learning the Cannabis Control Board of Ontario—or whatever the new bureaucracy is called—will become an appendage of the LCBO. When it comes to retail distribution, insisted Finance Minister Charles Sousa, “the LCBO has the expertise, the experience and the insight to ensure careful control of cannabis, to help us discourage illicit market activity and see that illegal dispensaries are shut down.”


The government ignores the jobs that will be lost from private dispensaries being shut down

-
The decision was deemed a blow to the “dispensaries” that have popped up across the province even before marijuana becomes legal next July. Liberals maintain the 150 government-run cannabis outlets will create jobs, overlooking the jobs that will be lost when the private outlets are forcibly closed. Of course Thomas hopes that jobs on the public payroll will come equipped with LCBO-level pay and benefits, and a protected status that should make for happy employees beholden to the caring government that brought them about and the union that will be out to recruit them. As Thomas crowed on Friday: “There is no downside to today’s announcement.”

He’s right, of course … if you happen to believe only government can be trusted to do anything right, in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Wynne’s is the most left-wing government in Ontario’s history, much more so than the ill-fated NDP regime that was hustled off to history after one troubled mandate in the 1990s. The unions were apoplectic by the end of former premier Bob Rae’s time in office; in contrast, they pour both time and money into getting the Liberals re-elected time and again, no matter how many boondoggles they pile up in their wake.


Even as Wynne was revealing her pot plan, her party was suffering the embarrassment of two separate trials of senior Liberals. And on Thursday two independent offices—those of the auditor-general and the financial accountability officer—declared that the government’s budget numbers can’t be trusted. Only by fudging numbers, skirting accounting rules, and projecting unlikely growth figures could the Liberals meet the rosy forecasts they persist in releasing, they said. That will become evident eventually, but Wynne’s people intend to do their best to bamboozle voters at least until the next election is over.


It may be no coincidence the marijuana announcement coincided with less appetizing headlines

-
It may be no coincidence that the marijuana announcement was timed to coincide with those less appetizing headlines. It allowed the premier to pose as a defender of law and order, and a protector of the young and vulnerable, rather than the head of a government steeped in scandal and struggling against abysmal popularity ratings. As the Liberals prepare for June’s election they’re eager to demonstrate they are capable of something besides record deficits, unpopular energy policies and a cozy relationship with high-cost unions. They’ve already placated consumers with subsidized power bills, bought off teachers unions with an early and generous contract extension, and gone to war with doctors as evidence of their determination to keep spending under control. (That battle, unfortunately, may just be starting: Ottawa’s deeply unpopular plan to change tax laws affecting many doctors may only prompt them to demand much higher pay next time they’re at the provincial bargaining table.)

There is a good chance the new marijuana regime will fail to fulfill the government’s hopes for it. The planned 150 outlets have been dismissed as far too few to meet demand. The cost of running the bureaucracy may push prices to the point that black market operators continue to find plenty of business. Pot is easier to smuggle than liquor; just look at the illicit tobacco trade for proof of that.


The unions will be happy with the plan, whether it works or not

But the unions will be happy with the plan, whether it works or not. And Ontarians may secretly breathe a sigh of relief, given that many continue to harbour considerable disquiet about legalization. They may tell pollsters they approve of legalization in theory, but open a pot store across the street from their kid’s school and see how they squawk. Private “dispensaries” may gripe, but they did nothing to help their cause by opening illegal storefront operations in defiance of the law, making a mockery of police efforts to shut them down. If you want to convince the public you can be trusted to keep illegal drugs away from the young, flouting the law is not a good way to go about it.

The new government outlets won’t open until next summer, ensuring judgement can’t be passed until the election is over. That suits the Liberals to a T. Nothing consumes Wynne and her colleagues more than the drive to win one more election. Posing as protectors of public integrity and the health of the young is great campaign material, even as Liberal beancounters tally up the revenue they hope to garner from peddling pot in government stores.


http://nationalpost.com/opinio.....rug-dealer
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4155
Reputation: 238.9
votes: 8

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And lest we forget -- the drugs that really do the damage -- prescription drugs -- and whose use is skyrocketing amongst kids, aren't even being looked at. That's where the lives can be saved. Those are the drugs over which they already exercise maximum control, and they can't put a dent in usage. In fact, they want to open up free supervised injection sites and supply addicts with needles. As a means of 'controlling' opiates!

I mean, how far through the looking-glass can you go, in this age of optional genders and all?

The problem is that they pander too much. Long before the campaign, the leader of the third party made a flip comment about weed legalization, got a headline or two. It contributed to being noticed, and a 'narrative' of being post-modern. He only walked it back a bit during the campaign, and here we are ...

But then he got into power, and look at what a mess he has made of it!

And when Ontario's entirely corrupt and venal Liberal Party got its hands on that jackpot, they revealed their real nature -- they're not sharing! And it won't start until there are a bunch of George Smitherman type companies, backed by Liberal investors, in on the gravy train.

The Federal Liberal Party is incompetent and dangerous. It's only real motive is to capture the treasury so its insiders can live high. They have no real core values. or real priorities except climate nonsense, gender nonsense, and personal gain. Everything else they do is just pandering or political score-settling.

They used to be ábout something' -- they used to have a sense of priorities of the Canadian people, but they have lost that. Now they act as is bureaucratic empathy can cure actual social problems'rather than subsidize and support them.

But now, they're dangerous and incompetent.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There is a rational reason to legalize marijuana. The reason is because the ''war on drugs" policy has failed. If the police can't stop a bulky, smelly product like marijuana from getting to the public, why do we think they'll be successful with small powdery substances that only dogs can smell?

But they can't admit (1) that they demonized it in the first place; (2) that in fact it fits very comfortably with other inebriants that are legal, such as alcohol; (3) that the previous policy was a failure; (4) they have no alternative policy that will work, and (5) it isn't that bad anyway.

But what to do?

What is overlooked here is the power of the culture. But that means trusting free people to use their liberty to exercise social control on the people they interact with. In Jamaica, the local people look down on pot smokers, and that's enough. Jamaicans, generally, don't smoke anything like Canadians.

At present, the culture thinks the police are back with Reefer Madness, the 1940ies anti-marijuana movie endorsed by the FBI. They basically think it's pretty harmless, and that the police will take care of the bad guys. Which is a joke, because more likely, the hoodlums will 'take care' of the police, if you know what I mean ... wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

But it's the money that attracts the bad guys! And the reason there's so much money in it is that the police maintain such a high legal tariff around it. So, in an odd way, the war on drugs policy is fundamental to the existence of organized crime in the retailing of marijuana.

Trust me, it's true.

The lesson? The Liberals are dangerous and incompetent panderers who don't think things through. And who think they're better than Trump! It's actually hillarious. Somebody should write a musical around this circus, and call it Toronto!
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1

  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


A Marijuana Control Board for Ontario?

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB