Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page 1, 2  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Opioid Crisis: Is it why men are dropping out of workforce? Reply with quote

Quote:
Fed Believes Opioid Crisis Is Reason Why Men Aren't Working

by Tyler Durden
Jul 21, 2017 10:55 PM

Bill Polacek runs a manufacturing company in Western Pennsylvania. Even though a glut in new construction projects has dried up work for tradesmen, Polacek said he struggled to find qualified welders a few years back when he had a large number of jobs to fill. Polacek interviewed 350 people to fill openings for 50 welders and machinists at his Johnstown, Pennsylvania-based manufacturing company. But he quickly found the number of qualified candidates dwindling to the point where the number of open jobs was higher than the applicants qualified to fill them. The reason? Too many of Polacek’s interviewees either had criminal histories, or couldn’t pass a drug test.

Quote:
“'We weren’t attracting the right people,' Polacek says of the episode, which prompted him to invest in extensive outreach to local high schools to build up a pipeline of workers.”

America’s worsening opioid crisis has helped create a generation of men whose struggles with addiction are preventing them from finding, and holding, steady jobs. Indeed, the type of hard-to-hire Americans Polacek encountered pose a growing problem for many employers, as a deepening opioid crisis plagues American communities just as the jobless rate hovers near a 16-year low. Polacek’s situation is hardly unique; the Fed’s Beige Book, a collection of anecdotes about the business climate collected by the 12 regional Fed banks, has included many testimonials about the difficulty that some employers, particularly manufacturing firms, are having in finding qualified workers, like this one from a manufacturing firm in St. Louis.

Quote:
“Manufacturing contacts in Louisville and Memphis reported difficulties finding experienced or qualified employees, with some citing candidates’ inability to pass drug tests,” the St. Louis Fed reported in the July 12 Beige Book, a survey of regional economic conditions. Businesses have also raised the issue as a barrier to finding workers in conversations with Philadelphia Fed President Patrick Harker.

According to Bloomberg, the Federal Reserve has stumbled on an explanation for the phenomenon that Polacek experienced when he tried to hire those welders - a question that has stumped central bankers, policy wonks and academics: Why are so many working-age men are dropping out of the labor force?

Even though this trend started 40 years ago, the Fed says the opioid crisis is now contributing to the problem of shrinking prime-age labor-force participation. The seeds of the opioid crisis were planted in the 1990s as doctors liberally prescribed dangerous painkillers like Vicodin and Oxycontin. Today, 15%, or one in seven, men between 25 and 54 are inexplicably missing from the workforce, despite the unemployment rate purportedly declining to 4.4% in June.

{In the original article, there is a chart here. I don't know how to reproduce them. These charts showing the trends they are talking about and are distributed through the article as evidence. I will indicate where charts are missing.]

The opioid crisis began in earnest around the beginning of Obama’s first term in office, as deaths from drug overdoses started to climb. Now, after recording nearly 60,000 drug-related deaths last year, drugs are the biggest killer of prime-age Americans. America has more drug overdose deaths than any other developed country. Many of these deaths are caused by dangerous synthetic opioid analogues like fentanyl and carfentanil, the latter of which is 100% stronger than morphine.

[Chart here.]

And it’s not just Fed Chairwoman Janet Yellen, who was asked several questions about opioids during her testimony before the Senate Banking Committee last week, who’s trying to connect the dots between opioids and the surfeit of unemployable, shiftless young men: At the Cleveland Fed’s summit, talk about the crisis wasn’t reserved for the opioid-specific panel: it came up throughout the other sessions, according to Bloomberg.

Quote:
“It’s an economic issue. It has economic implications, but it’s a whole lot more than that,” Petrus said. “It’s cross-cutting.”

Many other notable academics, including Nobel Laureate Angus Deaton, have published economic research about opioids.

The Boston Fed published research in September on the link between local economic despair and opioid use in New England. Princeton University economists Anne Case and Angus Deaton suggested in their work on rising middle-age mortality among the white working class that the breakdown of traditional economic and social structures have probably contributed to a step up in overdose, alcoholism and suicide.

During her Senate testimony, Yellen explained that opioids were one cause of the drop in prime-age labor force participation, along with increasing automation and outsourcing by manufacturers. However, Yellen says she doesn’t understand whether widespread opioid abuse is a symptom of the “long running maladies” these workers have faced, or the cause.
Quote:

“There seems to be a clear indication or a clear connection between this and the ability to go to a job,” said Senator Joe Donnelly, to which Yellen agreed.

Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse asked Yellen whether mid-career job retraining opportunities might alleviate the problem, as technological innovation forces Americans in certain industries to acquire new skills or be replaced by a machine.

Quote:
“The individuals who’ve lost those jobs have found it difficult to acquire the skills necessary to re-enter the labor market and many individuals who don’t have the education are struggling to find jobs,” Yellen said, in response.

But while mid-career job retraining sounds plausible – it is a concrete, if wonkish, policy, there’s a broader problem with the labor force that narrowly applicable, resource-intensive “solutions” like these are missing. And that’s the fact that, fundamentally, the number of well-paying jobs available for everyone except the supremely well-educated is shrinking rapidly. Meanwhile, the financial circumstances for the average millennial are much more precarious. Indeed, failure to launch a career during the early years can leave a negative impact for years to come.

While it’s nice to think about, the “everybody should just learn to code” policy won’t fix any of these deeply entrenched problems in the US labor market – and it certainly won’t convince anyone to stop using drugs.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/.....nt-working


Don't be too sure that the situation is a lot better in Canada. The most recent American stats report something just less that 50,000 deaths. In Canada, there were 2458 such deaths in Canada in 2016-- about 5% of the American rate, where you might expect it to be around 10% if these drugs were distributed evenly in the two countries.

But don't breathe easy. This is one of those exponential curve phenomena. If you use opioid deaths as an index, it means it doubles every three or four years. But this is in every community, and in every class. A lot of people started these drugs as prescription drugs and became addicts.

This is the real price of drug addiction. It isn't the recreational pot smoker enjoying his weekends. It's the prescription, pharmaceutical drugs that somehow have escaped the normal controls, and are raging through the country, not only demoralizing our labour force, but spurring all kinds of secondary crime.

I have a nephew who lived on Hastings Street in Vancouver for years, which gives me a little insight as his parent tries to set him right again, after years of rehab. I see it all over the small town where i live. It's worse out west. I don't know whether its the drug use that causes the lower participation, or the lower participation that causes the drug use, but in fact, it isn;t just males, and it isn't just the layabouts that increasingly inhabit the public places in our cities.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic seems to have no interest for Conservatives ... they are focussed on the dire threat of marijuana, as if government can do anything positive about it. Opioid drugs have always been prescription drugs.

Quote:
An Ohio Factory Owner Is Eager To Hire Workers, There Is Just One Problem...
by Tyler Durden
Jul 31, 2017 10:12 AM

In April, the Fed's otherwise boring Beige Book revealed a striking anecdote about the current state of the US labor market: as the Boston Fed commented at the time, the qualified labor shortage had gotten so bad, that the hit rate on hiring after a simple math and drug test, has collapsed below 50%. To wit:
Quote:

Labor markets in the First District continued to tighten somewhat. Many employers sought to add modestly to head counts (although one manufacturer laid off about 4 percent of staff over the last year), while wage increases were modest. Some smaller retailers noted increasing labor costs, in part driven by increases in state minimum wages being implemented over a multi-year period. Restaurant contacts, particularly in heavy tourism regions, expressed concern about possible labor shortages this summer, exacerbated by an expected slowdown in granting H-2B visas. Half of contacted manufacturers were hiring, though none in large numbers; several firms said it was hard to find workers.

One respondent said that during a recent six-month attempt to add to staff for a new product, two-thirds of applicants for assembly line jobs were screened out before hiring via math tests and drug tests; of 400 workers hired, only 180 worked out.
Fast forward to today when we have a practical example of how severe this quandary has become for employers.
[Emphasis in the original.]

According to WTVR, an Ohio factory owner said on Saturday that although she has numerous blue-collar jobs available at her company, she struggles to fill positions because so many candidates fail drug tests. Regina Mitchell, co-owner of Warren Fabricating & Machining in Hubbard, Ohio, told The New York Times this week that four out of 10 applicants otherwise qualified to be welders, machinists and crane operators will fail a routine drug test. While not quite as bad as the adverse hit rate hinted at by the Beige Book, this is a stunning number, and one which indicates of major structural changes to the US labor force where addiction and drugs are keeping millions out of gainful (or any, for that matter) employment.

Speaking to CNN’s Michael Smerconish, Mitchell said that her requirements for prospective workers were simple: “I need employees who are engaged in their work while here, of sound mind and doing the best possible job that they can, keeping their fellow co-workers safe at all times,” she said. [....]
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/.....ne-problem
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anytime I see headlines suggesting company X cannot find the right employees my mind automatically says "we cannot hire based on our lowly pay offerings"

Four out of 10 fail.

Ok, hire the other 6. Problem solved.

But then, we know for a fact that drug tests are not done for alcohol, so Empl #4 who is drunk almost every night is scot free. So too is the Empl who went AWOL a few weekends ago for cocaine and similar drugs.

Empl #8 smoked a joint last week/month and he is now excluded.

Which Empl would you prefer to have?

Whem employers get smart, a lot of these issues will simply die.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's hope its all as trivial as you suggest, But the company may very well be following government safety regulations, or perhaps requirements of their insurers. It's hard to see why an employer would care if the performance at work wasn't obviously affected.

But I hire people from time to time, and in my experience, if your new guy can't start until after 10 am because he has to be at the methadone clinic at 9 ... that guy isn't going to be your best worker. Opioid addicts have their characteristics. They tend to have short attention spans, leave tools all over the place, cut corners and have no sense of craftsmanship. It seems hard for them to put in an eight hour day. They have a strong tendency to 'use' when they can, and most never really get off of it -- they just bop in and out of our world, dependng on circumstances.

I'm sure there's a government study that has all this reduced to bullet points.

Opioid addicts aren't like people who smoke marijuana. Opioids are a real addicts in the Hollywood sense, and they makes inroads amongst groups that feel they have no future -- and there's always lots of them welfare states. The death count is only an index of the harm the drug does. In a way, the user that overdoses is the least of it -- there is also all the damage that that one addict has done to everybody around them, including at work.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US Fed govt only mandates a few industries to have drug testing.

The vast employer network is under no legal reason to do so . Large companies started doing this when Reagan was President .

I was not referring to opiod addicts as they are a relatively small portion of the community (albeit causing lots of damage) and they are generally not in the workforce.

Insurance does not require drug testing that I am aware of. Benefit plans are set up as a pool and I am unaware of any private Ins CO that makes any condition to testing prior.

Private individual life insurance will require some testing ( largely dependant on value of policy-under a half million and they normally wont)
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you honestly think that 50,000+ overdose deaths a year is a marginal problem? As I said, the number is only an index of the number of users, which would multiples of that number. And the most alarming aspect of it is (despite eliminating oxycontin as the leading addictive prescription drug) the total number of overdose deaths is increasing.

As for your unsourced info ... tell me, which industries does the US mandate drug testing? How many such mandates exist, and what part of the working population falls under them? Do you even know when you say such things?

How about truckers? That's one of the bigger occupational categories, believe it or not, and you can't drive a trúck in the USA if you have diabetes, or a heart condition, etc. Truckers used to pop pills and keep their rigs rolling for 18-20 hours a day. Now they have to keep logs that limit their hours on the road.

And if they test truckers, what about all the other people in equally dangerous jobs? I can easily imagine such requirements being placed on crane operators and operators of heavy equipment in general.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
Do you honestly think that 50,000+ overdose deaths a year is a marginal problem?

No.
Good thing I didnt categorize it as such huh?

It is a small number of the overall employee pool, which when compared made the comment about the employer not being able to find people....well moot.

Like I said, hire the other 6 !
Quote:



As for your unsourced info ... tell me, which industries does the US mandate drug testing? How many such mandates exist, and what part of the working population falls under them? Do you even know when you say such things?

Oh brother.

Yes I do thanks. I learn/know things before I post unlike some.....

Well there is this... Omnibus Transportation Employee Testing Act of 1991. It covers transportation for those in safety sensitive positions.
The DOT covers 5 agencies , FAA , FHA (highway) , FTA, FRA (railway) and USCG . Most of these are truck and bus drivers. The others are grouped as armed services personnel, federal contractors and executive agencies.

Does that work?
Quote:
How about truckers?

How about them?
Quote:
That's one of the bigger occupational categories, believe it or not, and you can't drive a trúck in the USA if you have diabetes, or a heart condition, etc.

LOL !

One should really keep their mouth shut and not mock others about 'knowing' when they make up incredible stupid things like the above to try and make a point.

However, when they dont, they get laughed at. Such is debate.

Of course you can drive a commercial truck when you have diabetes or have a heart condition(s). Now there was a time.......but that was a long long time ago. (almost 20 years IIRC)
Quote:

Truckers used to pop pills and keep their rigs rolling for 18-20 hours a day. Now they have to keep logs that limit their hours on the road.

They still do.

And?
Quote:

And if they test truckers, what about all the other people in equally dangerous jobs? I can easily imagine such requirements being placed on crane operators and operators of heavy equipment in general.
What about them?

Are they federal employees? Fed contractors? In a comp[any of more than 50 employees? Private 4 man operations?
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am making another point, about the real drug crisis, not into the vagaries of driver testing for truckers in those whole 50 states of the union. Nor an I referring to the intense problem of squeezing taxes out of marijuana. I am talking about human cost. And it seems to me that if there are 50,000+ lives being lost annually to these drugs, it is altogether likely that there are millions addicted and having their lives destroyed in a slower and more tortuous process. And there are probably millions more woven into their support system.

It shows up in the labor market, but it also shows up other places, and it is a huge problem because it is growing so fast, and it is so destructive.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt anyone is being flippant about the numbers, however nor should they claim the sky is falling.

You are correct that interwoven into most addicts lives are people who suffer even tho they are not comsumers of the drugs.

I get that.

But until the people who can do something stand up and attack the social ills from consumption then things should remain relatively static.
Employing more cops is never the answer. Bustng addicts is never the answer.

But hold, why dont we reboot and go after the number #1 ill in North America?

Alcohol. Not pot, not heroin, not fentanyl not cocaine.

Alcohol klls 88,000 Yanks a year. Eight eight thousand. https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm

Ahh....but there is little done about that.

And that brings me full circle to the opiod / heroin epidemic and drug testing in general.

Testing for drugs is useless per se. One can get around the game in various ways. But yet no one tests for booze (although IIRC oilfields do) .

To be honest, I have no issue with employing the person who lights up after work . By morning the worst they might be is a bit slow....soon to get moving as day wears on.

The drunk? Nope. I see it where I work, the shakes on the hands and the cravings.....for me much worse than the wake and baker
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you aren't minimizing the effects of drug addiction, I don't know what you are doing. Maybe this will make the point:

Quote:
Half of Detroit’s 8 mayoral candidates are felons
Christine Ferretti,Mike Martindale and Robert Snell, The Detroit News Published 10:36 p.m. ET Aug. 2, 2017 | Updated 10:40 a.m. ET Aug. 3, 2017

Detroit — Half of the eight mayoral hopefuls on Detroit’s primary ballot next week have been convicted of felony crimes involving drugs, assault or weapons, a Detroit News analysis shows.

Three were charged with gun crimes and two for assault with intent to commit murder. Some of the offenses date back decades, the earliest to 1977. The most recent was in 2008.

Political consultant Greg Bowens said there are candidates with past hardships in every election cycle. It’s not something unique to Detroit or the political arena in general, he said.

“Black marks on your record show you have lived a little and have overcome some challenges,” said Bowens, a former press secretary to Detroit Mayor Dennis Archer and NAACP activist. “They (candidates) deserve the opportunity to be heard, but they also deserve to have the kind of scrutiny that comes along with trying to get an important elected position.”

Tuesday’s Detroit mayoral primary election is the first since the city exited bankruptcy in 2014. The field of eight will be narrowed to two who will face off in the fall. [....]
http://www.detroitnews.com/sto.....104244406/


Drugs are now all over the place. The underworld, these days, are the guys who distribute opioids and other drugs. It's not bank robbers anymore. Drug deals are where the guns come out. I don't care how bad Detroit is, it doesn't get to this degree without there being drug lords in the picture.

You just make too much up to have a lot of credibility in my book. I know, because I interact with a lot of serious truckers that they have to keep 'logs' and essentially prove that they aren't driving without sleep. There are electronics on the trucks, or perhaps their phones, that enable the police to check. And truckers still cheat -- a little bit -- but there are serious penalties, and enough enforcement that truckers are very careful. Truckers have to have regular medicals, like airline pilots to drive in the US, and get disqualified through their licensing.

And we haven't even got into the intricacies of insurance risk, and how it impacts employers. I don't accept your breezy assurrances.

The opioid epidemic doesn't appear in my generation, except as painkiller addicts. So I mostly don't notice it. My generation are supplied with their drugs, mostly, and only have to worry about the cleaning woman stealing them.

But amongst the 20 to 30-year-olds, it's not that way. Why can't you just accept that it's not implausible that unemployed crane operators are heavily into drugs? And that, if a company in Ohio finds 40% of its applicants can't be hired because they failed the drug test, isn't that an index? Do you want marijuana smokers to be operating cranes any more than you would want drinkers to be doing so?

And how different is Ontario from Ohio?

As far as I am concerned, it is just one more straw in the wind, one more indication of the scale of our pathologies.

Where we differ most, you always get into what are 'we' going to do about it? It means giving the likes of Bill Blair more power. (I'm personally not sure that Pablo Escobar wouldn't be preferable.)

But, to me, the opioid epidemic illustrates the limits of the government's ability to repress behaviour the managerial classes don't like. They can't do it. Opioids are proof of the failure. In fact, paid agents of the state played a big role in introducing these drugs to the public. They run a prescription system designed to limit the public's access to these drugs to those for whom it's medically necessary. It's had its successes. Oxycontin has declined in use, for example. But the bad guys have it all over the cops, and let's face it about our cops.

The only alternative left is to let the culture take care of it, in it's own way. And that's the part you will never condone.
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
If you aren't minimizing the effects of drug addiction, I don't know what you are doing. Maybe this will make the point:

No no, I assure you that will not make any point at all. A Mayoralty race = opiod crisis?

No.

I advised that I am not minimizing the effects. Said that enough times already.
My last point was more to why worry about one thing when something faaaaaar more harmful to the economy is out there and isnt called a crisis?

Yes opiods are a problem, a big problem in many peoples lives . But lets not take parts of data, espoecially from an empliyer who says 4 of 10 are an issue.
Hire the other 6 for gawds sake !

Quote:
Half of Detroit’s 8 mayoral candidates are felons
Christine Ferretti,Mike Martindale and Robert Snell, The Detroit News Published 10:36 p.m. ET Aug. 2, 2017 | Updated 10:40 a.m. ET Aug. 3, 2017

Detroit — Half of the eight mayoral hopefuls on Detroit’s primary ballot next week have been convicted of felony crimes involving drugs, assault or weapons, a Detroit News analysis shows.

Just shows you how far Detroit has fallen under horrible Democrat Mayors and the people running the show.
Detroit is a whole 'nother issue. Lets not get mired in anything that is not pertinent to this discusion.

Quote:

Drugs are now all over the place. The underworld, these days, are the guys who distribute opioids and other drugs. It's not bank robbers anymore. Drug deals are where the guns come out. I don't care how bad Detroit is, it doesn't get to this degree without there being drug lords in the picture.

Your leap to conclusion is seriously lacking.

Drugs have always been all over the place. Pretty easy for anyone to get anytime...anywhere.
Bank robbers were the distribution network for drugs?
Ya know....nevermind, lets just let this one die on the vine.
Quote:

You just make too much up to have a lot of credibility in my book.

You have a somewhat curious sense of self aggrandizement . You tell me I make too much up. This of course is after I debunked some quaint and ill found idea that diabetics cant drive truck in the USA.

And I make things up? Yikes !
Quote:

I know, because I interact with a lot of serious truckers that they have to keep 'logs' and essentially prove that they aren't driving without sleep. There are electronics on the trucks, or perhaps their phones, that enable the police to check. And truckers still cheat -- a little bit -- but there are serious penalties, and enough enforcement that truckers are very careful. Truckers have to have regular medicals, like airline pilots to drive in the US, and get disqualified through their licensing.

OK...so lets recap.

You know truckers. Sorry.....serious truckers (means I guess I only deal w the NOT serious type of truckers? )
And these serious truckers have been telling you lies about diabetics and truckers with heart conditions not being able to drive?

Methinks they are not serious truckers at all. Methinks you havent a clue about any of this since your information is lacking anything resembling the truth.

But wait, you go on....about logs on phone (perhaps-meaning you arent sure) medicals and the such.

Dude, why not ask instead of pontificating and getting caught out as not knowing?

And your trucker dudes are doing you a diservice. They already know (if they exist) that they have to have ELD's installed by December 16th of this year (Electronic Logging Device)
Psst...generally only DOT / MOT or equivalent who check these logs unless an accident ocurrs.

Medicals are done upon application for the various licences we have. Once done though, NO medical is needed for 5 years ( up to age 46) over that then 3 years until 65 then every year.
I guess regular could mean every 5 years.
Quote:

And we haven't even got into the intricacies of insurance risk, and how it impacts employers. I don't accept your breezy assurrances.

How so?
What intracicies would you like to discuss? I am all ears.

Quote:

The opioid epidemic doesn't appear in my generation, except as painkiller addicts. So I mostly don't notice it. My generation are supplied with their drugs, mostly, and only have to worry about the cleaning woman stealing them.

Where do you think some people get their drugs from?

Old people who sell them off to pay the bills. Grandkids who steal them knowing full well they get good pocket money for dealing them.
I could have made a small fortune selling my meds when I was injured way back . I had Percocet , 50 prescribed then 3 weeks latter I Dr who I knew (Head of Orthopedics at THE major Hospital in Toronto- friends dad) who prescribed me another 50 or 100.
Friends bugged me to sell them to them, or sell on street and profit. At $10-$20 a hit (1990) I would have done just fine. But my pain issues were my focus and never sold them. They do F you up. I kept them around when my pain went away so I could cure a hangover in 2 minutes flat. Yes they work that fast and thats a half a pill I took.
Quote:

But amongst the 20 to 30-year-olds, it's not that way. Why can't you just accept that it's not implausible that unemployed crane operators are heavily into drugs? And that, if a company in Ohio finds 40% of its applicants can't be hired because they failed the drug test, isn't that an index? Do you want marijuana smokers to be operating cranes any more than you would want drinkers to be doing so?

I never said it wasnt implausible . But crane operators? Why not any other industry?
Hire the other 60% and the employer doesnt have an issue.

And again, I will state, when employers dont offer enough of a wage then jobs sit.

You are aware of course that in Alberta in their last hey days couldnt get workers for any fast food joints until they raised the wages . Why? Low wages werent enough for folks to work and pay the exhorbitant rents being charged.

To be honest? Yes Id rather a pot smoker operate my machinery than a drunk. One will be aggresive and wild and one will be slow as molasses and chill . Ok...Id rather neither of them be on it but hey, if to choose then 'pass the dutchie from the left hand side" .
Quote:

And how different is Ontario from Ohio?
A ton....and not so much.

But based on comparisons betw CDA and USA....there's a ton different. CDA had 2458 deaths from opiods in 2016 and USA had 50,000 .
If they are ten times bigger than us, they should have around 24,000....but they have twice that.
Plenty of it can be laid at the Dr's feet . And sitting there are the reps of the big pharmas offering incentives to prescribe this shit like candy. Hey Doc...two more and it off to Hawaii for you and the spouse !
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the huffing of gas , the ingesting of moonshine and the like the problem of opiods is a societal / social issue we must address.

Like fentanyl we need a massive campaign to alert the users and the curious as to the whys and hows of this particular drug. We need to teach the users ( I want to say kids but its more than just them) how easy it is to get an OD when buying off the street.

The criminal element is the mfg and imprtation of the drug. The use is societal/social issue.

I went to a private boys school in central Toronto. The height of the cocaine boom happened at the time. It was everywhere.

I had tried a little of it, curious and such, but always only a little. Never did a thing for me.

This school was always rather pro-active on things, they knew some of the kids were on it.
But we had many many Dr's kids there so one day we had a seminar and one of the boys dad came in and gave us a no nonsense lecture on what happens when we snort coke.
Shocked the shit out of me. Electrons misfiring , synapses falling into open space.....and a heart attack results .

No thanks from that day forward . As did enough of my friends.

Young people dont want to die, they want the thrill of this stuff. The addicts just want to chase the high theyll never catch again. Increase the doses each time and voila...dead.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After all that bluster, this is where you end up -- you making my point to me! The real drug problem is opioids, and that it has serious economic consequences even though those suffering are those being systematically ignored by the system -- industrial workers.

And then you get into this strange use of the pronoun 'we'. Now its like huffing gas, it's a societal problem. More Bill Blair solutions, more thuggish police, more laws designed to manufacture convictions that address a problem -- kinda like the Gregory Allan Elliott case, remember? Or Ghomeshi? Is that your solution?

When do you recognize that more police and more funding and more government education is NOT the answer. We tried all of that and it has failed. Which is the plain truth about the current left -- their ideas generally don't work. Why don't we just face it?
Toronto Centre





Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 589
Reputation: 91Reputation: 91
votes: 3
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir, I respectfully think you dont understand english. Seriously.

This...this is what you got out of that?
Bugs wrote:
After all that bluster, this is where you end up -- you making my point to me! The real drug problem is opioids, and that it has serious economic consequences even though those suffering are those being systematically ignored by the system -- industrial workers.

For one, alcohol is a much more serious problem. The numbers dont lie. They were provided to you.
So the 'real problem' is substance abuse , with alcohol doing far more damage but we can include opiods as part of the problem.
Quote:

And then you get into this strange use of the pronoun 'we'. Now its like huffing gas, it's a societal problem.

Social/societal problem .
Quote:

More Bill Blair solutions, more thuggish police, more laws designed to manufacture convictions that address a problem -- kinda like the Gregory Allan Elliott case, remember? Or Ghomeshi? Is that your solution?

Heres where you go off the rails. I never suggested more laws or more police involvement.
Thats just you making things up.
Sorry dude !
Quote:

When do you recognize that more police and more funding and more government education is NOT the answer. We tried all of that and it has failed. Which is the plain truth about the current left -- their ideas generally don't work. Why don't we just face it?

Oh easy....when I ever suggest more police and more funding of police I will be sure to give you a call.
But I didnt. You made that up.

Im guessing you are off the 'my friends are truckers' thing ?

I have figured you out to be advesarial for no other reason than you cant form a proper debate on this.

Please try and practice reading comprehension. It'll help.
Bugs





Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 4149
Reputation: 238.7
votes: 8

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you did! You may not have used the words "police involvement" but you started talking that old tired bullshit about "it's a societal problem." Some native kids huffing gas in a town of 1500 with their parents and relatives all around is somehow a collective problem that we all should work to find a solution? That's the talk of state bureaucrats who try to solve every problem with money and coppers with tasers.

Real people don't think that way. They think "What's wrong with their parents?" The fat asses in the swivel chairs think: "hmmm ... any empire building prospects there?"

You are the one who raised the subject of alcohol. I don't see it as 'on topic', frankly. I put up a juicy bit from yesterday's Detroit paper, showing how the drug culture has penetrated the Democrat machines that are responsible for the disastrous condition of so many American cities. These are the machines that control local policing. (The previous mayor is now in jail.) If it's open in Detroit there are a lot of cities that aren't that far behind. Those aren't bootleggers, those are drug entrepreneurs, make no mistake. You see no connection.

Just because your comprehension is limited doesn't mean there is no point. It isn't that alcohol isn't a problem. It is, but it isn't causing new damage in the way drugs are. You think my English is the problem? Then why can't you see that opioids are too?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2

Goto page 1, 2  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Opioid Crisis: Is it why men are dropping out of workforce?

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB