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RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: 31 people voted twice in Michigan election Reply with quote

( no evidence of voter fraud ? this sort of thing would of been much ore difficult in Canada as all the polls are given up to date lists of who has already voted in advance polls etc , but apparently some were able to vote twice in Detroit )


Early and often? 31 people voted twice in Michigan election


Published February 09, 2017
· FoxNews.com



At least 31 people in Michigan could face felony charges for voting twice during last November's presidential election.

Chris Thomas, state elections director, said the residents voted twice, first with an absentee ballot and then in person.

Their names were turned over to the attorney general's office for possible prosecution.

Voting twice, or even attempting to do so, is a felony."It's not acceptable," Thomas said.

Fourteen of the 31 were in Detroit. Officials believe Detroit poll workers didn't catch the double votes because they weren't given an updated list of voters who had used an absentee ballot.It's not known which candidate got the votes.

Ballots are anonymous."There are processes in place to stop this. In these 31 cases, they didn't work," Thomas said.

Separately, the state Bureau of Elections said human error, not fraud or equipment failure, caused mismatches between the number of ballots cast in some Detroit precincts and the number of voters.

The agency's investigation followed a partial statewide recount of the presidential race, which raised questions about the safeguarding of ballots in Detroit. A judge stopped the recount after three days, although officials said it would not have changed President Trump's slim victory in Michigan over Hillary Clinton.

Before the recount was halted, there was an attempt to recount ballots in 263 Detroit precincts. But 68 precincts didn't qualify because the number of ballots didn't match the number of people who showed up to vote.

Some ballots, for example, were left in a tub below an electronic tabulator and not transferred to a secure box on election night. In one polling place, there were 300 voters but only 50 properly sealed ballots.

While many precincts couldn't be part of the recount, all ballots cast on Nov. 8 still were part of the final official result.

"There was no pervasive fraud in our audit of Detroit," said state elections director Chris Thomas, who instead cited "widespread performance issues" related to a lack of sufficient training for poll workers.

He said his elections staff looked at 136 precincts and was able to balance the number of ballots and voters in 65 and greatly reduce mismatches in others.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....ction.html
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No surprise.

0.0000065% Wow.

1 in 155,620 votes cast. Only 2,999,969 more to uncover.

Its the same thing as welfare fraud when Premier Harris wanted to look into the issue. The cost of looking was way more than the fraud.
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are just the people who voted twice who they detected.

There's a lot more voter fraud than that.

In all 9 of the battleground states that Obama won to defeat Romney, you need zero identification to vote. There are people who've been dead for years on those voters lists. In other states, all you need is proof of a home address -- like an utilities bill -- to be enrolled.

Why do you think the Demoncrats are fighting voter ID laws so hard? You need ID to make an office visit to your senator.

It's the same thing as welfare fraud, where Premier Harris found that the mere threat of being investigated caused thousands and thousands of deadbeats and cheaters to drop off the handout list.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:


Why do you think the Demoncrats are fighting voter ID laws so hard?

Because it is being used to marginalize and discriminate many voters who likely are black.

Geez...pretty simple.
Quote:

It's the same thing as welfare fraud, where Premier Harris found that the mere threat of being investigated caused thousands and thousands of deadbeats and cheaters to drop off the handout list.

Cite please.

Thanks
RCO





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugs wrote:
These are just the people who voted twice who they detected.

There's a lot more voter fraud than that.

In all 9 of the battleground states that Obama won to defeat Romney, you need zero identification to vote. There are people who've been dead for years on those voters lists. In other states, all you need is proof of a home address -- like an utilities bill -- to be enrolled.

Why do you think the Demoncrats are fighting voter ID laws so hard? You need ID to make an office visit to your senator.

It's the same thing as welfare fraud, where Premier Harris found that the mere threat of being investigated caused thousands and thousands of deadbeats and cheaters to drop off the handout list.


I agree if they actually managed to find 31 people who they are virtually certain did in fact vote twice , there almost certainly is more out there who did the same

people are wondering why is trump worried about this if he already won the election ?

maybe the answer is he's already looking forward to other future elections and worried this could continue and even get worse considering the liberals hatred towards trump , why would they care is some minorities voted twice if they were voting for them ?
RCO





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mexican woman in Texas sentenced to 8 years in prison for voter fraud


Published February 11, 2017
· FoxNews.com


Rosa Ortega Texas

A Mexican citizen living in Texas was sentenced this week to eight years in prison for voting illegally in elections in 2012 and 2014.

Rosa Maria Ortega, 37, was found guilty Wednesday on two counts of illegal voting after she falsely claimed to be a United States citizen and voted at least five times between 2012 and 2014.

A jury sentenced her Thursday to eight years in prison and a $5,000 fine.


The Dallas News reported Ortega voted in the November 2012 election and May 2014 GOP primary runoff in Dallas County.

According to Fox 4 News, Ortega’s identity came into question after she tried to register to vote twice in Tarrant County. Both applications were denied.

She had voted in five elections in Dallas before her registration was canceled in April 2015.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton – for whom Ortega voted in 2014 – assisted in the prosecution.

“This case shows how serious Texas is about keeping its elections secure, and the outcome sends a message that violators of the state’s election law will be prosecuted to the fullest,” he said.


According to the New York Times, Ortega was born in Monterrey, Mexico and brought to the U.S. by her mother as an infant. More than a decade later, her mother was deported and Ortega became a permanent resident.

In her defense, Ortega testified that she didn’t understand the differences between the rights granted to citizens and the rights granted to legal residents.

“My mom just used us to get stamps. She never gave us love or guidance. She got deported,” she said, according to Fox 4. "All my life since I worked, I always on my knowledge thought I was a U.S. citizen because I never knew the difference of U.S. citizen and U.S. resident. And the point is if I knew, everything would've been the correct way."

The Dallas News reported that prosecutors showed that Ortega has checked a box on her driver’s license form indicating she was not a citizen.

However, the Dallas County election administrator said Ortega had filled out a voter application and checked that she was a citizen in 2015.

Voter fraud became a hot topic after President Trump made an unsubstantiated claim that he would have won the popular vote if millions had not voted illegally.

In addition to the long prison sentence, Ortega is likely to be deported, her lawyer Clark Birdsall said.

"She'll do eight years in a Texas prison," he told the Times. "And then she'll be deported, and wake up blinking and scratching in a country she doesn't know."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017.....fraud.html
Bugs





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
Bugs wrote:


Why do you think the Demoncrats are fighting voter ID laws so hard?

Because it is being used to marginalize and discriminate many voters who likely are black.

Geez...pretty simple.
Quote:

It's the same thing as welfare fraud, where Premier Harris found that the mere threat of being investigated caused thousands and thousands of deadbeats and cheaters to drop off the handout list.

Cite please.

Thanks


Nonsense! The Democrats have been marginalizing and discriminating against black Americans since they were founded by Andrew Jackson. That was in the 1830ies. They were the party that organized Jim Crow laws in the south. Woodrow Wilson was the president that racially segregated the U.S. federal civil service. (He was a 'progressive' too.)

All the broken cities of America were dominated by various Democratic Party machines. Detroit was turned into a smouldering cess pit by Democratic politicians. Ditto with Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, St. Louis, all of them. Only a naif would simply assume that the Democrats were ever interested in letting black people off of the plantation. So-oo ignorant!

In what country can you vote without having some reliable ID? In Canada, we have to have the same kinds of documentation that you need for social benefits. We are accommodating to immigrants, but we think our vote has value, and want the people who vote to have a stake in our communities. It's only good sense.

The big Democrat-dominated cities are just the opposite. Why do you think Bill de Blasio issued identity cards to anyone hanging around the streets of New York? With that card, and perhaps a utility bill you can vote in New York city even if you're fresh from Guatemala.

And, of course, nobody would violate the law in New York city.

Listen folks -- TC has nothing to say that isn't a handout from the left. His standard is to deny the other guy's point, only countering it with his socially 'correct' attitude, even when it runs counter to reality. My advice: enjoy his company, but don't take him seriously.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Nonsense! The Democrats have been marginalizing and discriminating against black Americans since they were founded by Andrew Jackson. That was in the 1830ies. They were the party that organized Jim Crow laws in the south. Woodrow Wilson was the president that racially segregated the U.S. federal civil service. (He was a 'progressive' too.)

Um...what does that have to do with anything?
Quote:

All the broken cities of America were dominated by various Democratic Party machines. Detroit was turned into a smouldering cess pit by Democratic politicians. Ditto with Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, St. Louis, all of them.

Thanks....as plain as water is wet but without any relevance.
Quote:

In what country can you vote without having some reliable ID? In Canada, we have to have the same kinds of documentation that you need for social benefits.

We only need....a library card and a residential lease copy....or a TTC card and an insurance cert.

For social benefits you need a SIN , not so to vote.
Next?
Quote:


Listen folks -- TC has nothing to say that isn't a handout from the left. .

You're cute when upset. "listen folks"......LOL
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:

We only need....a library card and a residential lease copy....or a TTC card and an insurance cert.


This seemed so crazy I needed to look it up,

Much to my surprise, you are correct that you can vote with a Library Card and a Residential Lease or a Metropass and an Insurance Certificate (Both together not separate)

http://www.elections.ca/conten.....amp;lang=e

However to get a Library Card;
The requirements are surprisingly challenging.

http://www.torontopubliclibrar.....cation.jsp

Or for that matter an Insurance Certificate will have a similar secondary requirement to obtain.

I played with the combinations to try and create the easiest path and even something like a blood donor card has a lot of secondary documentation you need to provide to obtain (along with giving blood 25 times)

Almost every piece of ID on the "Part 2" listing of elections Canada as silly as I thought some seemed have secondary documentation needed to obtain them.

I get where you are trying to go with this;
However if you are implying voting here is as easy as lets say California,

Where I can vote with a Health Club ID card and my Costco Renewal Letter,

http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.go.....3_3_06.pdf

It may be a challenging argument to make;
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:

This seemed so crazy I needed to look it up,
[
On the surface it does.
Quote:
However to get a Library Card;
The requirements are surprisingly challenging.

Hang on a sec...do you think so?

I don't.

Heres why,in that link I could get a library card using my OHIP card (which is the red striped one-I refuse to surrender!) and a lease copy. None of which show my face and in the case of the OHIP card its rendered useless since they cannot obtain anything with it.

Quote:

Or for that matter an Insurance Certificate will have a similar secondary requirement to obtain.

Those are the easiest things to forge. A dime a dozen , see it almost weekly and even been to court for the Crown.

Quote:

Almost every piece of ID on the "Part 2" listing of elections Canada as silly as I thought some seemed have secondary documentation needed to obtain them.

Some of them do, but if on were really wanting to....the path is very easy. Not to mention most voting booths are staffed ....shall we say ....well, they arent normally people who really care. (maybe its just my neighbourhood)
Quote:

I get where you are trying to go with this;
However if you are implying voting here is as easy as lets say California,

Where I can vote with a Health Club ID card and my Costco Renewal Letter,

But isnt it?

A fake CC would be a cinch in Cali, along with a utility bill?

I do agree plenty of them have secondary checks, ie get this to get that, but it would appear to me its easy to do.

But the fact is, so many of 'us'...(not you me and the rest here) cant be bothered to vote that I dont see others casting numerous ballots as all that serious.

I get the 31 in Michigan. But out of 5M it is statistically zero.

Even if that were a thousand fold higher for Cali , it would still be statistically zero. ( assumption of 40M voters-I may be off, just cut Pop in half)

And I have no idea what Trump wants to prove. He won, fair and square. Leave tainted voting for the loser to crow about.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:

Hang on a sec...do you think so?

I don't.

Heres why,in that link I could get a library card using my OHIP card (which is the red striped one-I refuse to surrender!) and a lease copy. None of which show my face and in the case of the OHIP card its rendered useless since they cannot obtain anything with it.


Sure, but you are producing a series of secondary identification in order to get a Library Card. Which is a far cry from lets say ten years ago.

With that said, how many Red/White OHIP cards would you say still exist?
Mine was recalled with penalty of invalidation nearly five years ago.

I would also be interested to see if they still accept it as ID at the Library as toward the end of my tenure with that card it was not.


Toronto Centre wrote:

Those are the easiest things to forge. A dime a dozen , see it almost weekly and even been to court for the Crown.


If you are actively looking to forge documentation and commit that degree of fraud in order to vote you could get a fake Passport or drivers license online.

Toronto Centre wrote:

Some of them do, but if on were really wanting to....the path is very easy. Not to mention most voting booths are staffed ....shall we say ....well, they arent normally people who really care. (maybe its just my neighbourhood)


Essentially your arguing that if you want to commit fraud you can easily commit voter fraud?

I don't disagree.

However the requirements to vote or to register to vote assuming you are not buying fake drivers license, forging insurance slips, or committing real estate fraud are at a minimum more stringent than California.


Toronto Centre wrote:

A fake CC would be a cinch in Cali, along with a utility bill?

I do agree plenty of them have secondary checks, ie get this to get that, but it would appear to me its easy to do.


Lets for a moment both agree that if you want to commit fraud, committing voter fraud is easier than if you don't. LOL.

The only point I was raising is that I feel that even the two simplest (and that is up for debate as to which two may be) requirements to vote in Canada still require more secondary work than a Health Club ID and a Costco Renewal letter.

Toronto Centre wrote:
I get the 31 in Michigan. But out of 5M it is statistically zero.

Even if that were a thousand fold higher for Cali , it would still be statistically zero. ( assumption of 40M voters-I may be off, just cut Pop in half)

And I have no idea what Trump wants to prove. He won, fair and square. Leave tainted voting for the loser to crow about.


I wasn't even here to weigh on on the issue of the 31 which I agree is statistically irreverent, were they votes for Clinton even?

I was drawn in simply the Library card requirement which honestly floored me. One of those learn something new every day moments.

In terms of your final point;
I agree.

He won the election using the system that has selected Presidents since the dawn on the United States in the face of legal challenges, recounts, and the most hostile electoral college I can ever remember.

He is the President.

Losing the Popular Vote is more of a historically interesting footnote than any relevance to the actual election itself and aside from "sticking it" to someone whose political career effectively died on election night, I don't see the reasoning in this.

I also feel the Vice President has much better things he could focus on at the moment.

My only takeaway from it is that California and Michigan voters were clearly looking for different things on Election Day.
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:


With that said, how many Red/White OHIP cards would you say still exist?
Mine was recalled with penalty of invalidation nearly five years ago.

I concur with your points.

As an aside tho.....your Red and White OHIP card was never in jeopardy of being cancelled.

I too got the letters , read it closely (IIRC) as it says they 'want' and 'will' at some point but that day has yet to arrive. So I keep my R&W card as it never expires. ( I think they issue is the Govt said these will never expire when they gave them out)

I dont know if the votes were for Clinton , the reality being that there were not enough for anyone to worry about.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toronto Centre wrote:
cosmostein wrote:


With that said, how many Red/White OHIP cards would you say still exist?
Mine was recalled with penalty of invalidation nearly five years ago.

I concur with your points.

As an aside tho.....your Red and White OHIP card was never in jeopardy of being cancelled.

I too got the letters , read it closely (IIRC) as it says they 'want' and 'will' at some point but that day has yet to arrive. So I keep my R&W card as it never expires. ( I think they issue is the Govt said these will never expire when they gave them out)

I dont know if the votes were for Clinton , the reality being that there were not enough for anyone to worry about.


Ugh;

Now I am trapped in the realm of five year renewals!
Toronto Centre





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:


Ugh;

Now I am trapped in the realm of five year renewals!

Sadly yes.

I have had co-workers here try to tell me the same thing but i showed them some websites and the language is strong to 'suggest' you change it , but the truth is they are valid if in good condition, readable (mag strip).

Copied from the Service Ontario website " The red and white health card is being eliminated."

I guess 20 years 'is being' .
Bugs





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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What TC ignores is that in the USA you have organizations that facilitate all of this. Obama himself said publicly

Quote:
RODRIGUEZ: Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens — and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country — are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?

OBAMA: Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, et cetera. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential in terms of who you voted for. If you have a family member who maybe is undocumented, then you have an even greater reason to vote.

RODRIGUEZ: This has been a huge fear presented especially during this election.

OBAMA: And the reason that fear is promoted is because they don’t want people voting. People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you’re not just speaking for yourself. You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school…

RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

OBAMA: … who may not have a voice. Who can’t legally vote. But they’re counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.
http://hotair.com/archives/201.....ants-vote/


The Democrats -- who have a long history of political thuggery, up to and including the recent 'Chicago mob' that was fronted by Obama -- had an obvious interest in getting as many Latino voters to the polls as possible. It's one of the fundamental reason Obama has lowered the border to Mexico.

You think they're going to blanche at a little skullduggery, like issuing city ID cards to facilitate the illegals?

TC suggests that it's the same here. No, it isn't. We don't have organizations trying to steer illegals through the hurdles. Or paying them, and driving them to polls. I don't see the NDP lowering themselves to the level of that federation of urban political machines that is the U.S. Democratic Party -- or the Liberals either.

The system seems so antiquated that millions of people can vote in two states. for example. People should bear in mind how easy it is when the local Democratic Party controls the municipal government, including the police. You take the de Blasio issued ID card, and something establishing an address, and you're on the rolls, a legal voter.

Quote:
Illegal Voters Uncovered in Philly Are ‘Tip of the Iceberg
Law firm uncovers illegal immigrants, convicted felons on rolls — and some have voted in crucial swing state
by Brendan Kirby | Updated 05 Oct 2016 at 11:21 AM

At least 86 non-citizens have been registered voters in Philadelphia since 2013, and almost half — 40 — even voted in at least one recent election, according to a legal group that sued to get voter registration records.

Joseph Vanderhulst, an attorney with the Public Interest Legal Foundation, noted Philadelphia knows about those 86 illegal voters only because officials received specific requests — in almost every case from the voters themselves — to remove the names from the rolls. He said there is no way to know how many non-citizens might be registered to vote in Philadelphia, let alone in the rest of politically crucial Pennsylvania.

“This is just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows how many are on and don’t ask to be taken off?”
“This is just the tip of the iceberg,” he said. “Who knows how many are on and don’t ask to be taken off?”

Research by the law firm also indicated that Philadelphia makes no effort to proactively remove non-citizens or incarcerated felons, who also are ineligible to vote under Pennsylvania law. Philadelphia becomes the latest jurisdiction that the Public Interest Legal Foundation has revealed to have irregularities in the voter rolls. The group recently found 1,046 non-citizens who had been registered to vote in eight Virginia counties and that nearly 200 cast ballots between 2005 and 2015.


There are lots of indications. The whole purpose of political machines is to control the vote, after all. The Democrats have a long tradition of buying votes on a one-to-one basis. It's what they do.

We don't have the urban political machines that are standard in American cities. So that line of argument doesn't mean much.
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31 people voted twice in Michigan election

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