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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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If they announce it a few years before an election it could help. Coyne's plan would see province's get the money from the tax, so they could decide to implement tax cuts.
It's interesting that Preston Manning wants to see a carbon tax brought it, how many conservatives would actually support it? |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Its going to be hard getting significant traction especially considering how far back the LPC is when your platform centerpiece contains the word "tax" not followed by the word "cut"
They need an equivalent to the 5% GST to get peoples attention |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: | Its going to be hard getting significant traction especially considering how far back the LPC is when your platform centerpiece contains the word "tax" not followed by the word "cut"
They need an equivalent to the 5% GST to get peoples attention |
Implement a carbon tax, cut income taxes, and allow provinces to decide where money from the tax goes. Don't know how it wold work, CPC would be only party not supporting it. |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it matters what policies the LPC spout before or even at the leadership convention; they never took the time to define who they are, what they stand for or what policies they represent. We will see a random grab bag of whatever appeals to their various focus groups.
Following that, they will acclaim the Young Dauphin to become leader since they are mesmerized by the idea that having the "right" leader will cause everything else to fall into place.
The perfect end result: The Young Dauphin as leader of the LPC. An empty suit in control of an empty vessel |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Thucydides wrote: | I don't think it matters what policies the LPC spout before or even at the leadership convention; they never took the time to define who they are, what they stand for or what policies they represent. We will see a random grab bag of whatever appeals to their various focus groups.
Following that, they will acclaim the Young Dauphin to become leader since they are mesmerized by the idea that having the "right" leader will cause everything else to fall into place.
The perfect end result: The Young Dauphin as leader of the LPC. An empty suit in control of an empty vessel |
How do you know he's an empty suit? Trudeau may not have lived up to many people's expectations but I don't see how anyone could say he's an empty suit anymore then saying he's got the experience to lead. Trudeau has shown us little but he's an MP, it's not his job, nor is it appropriate, to randomly announce policy ideas. |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: |
How do you know he's an empty suit? Trudeau may not have lived up to many people's expectations but I don't see how anyone could say he's an empty suit anymore then saying he's got the experience to lead. Trudeau has shown us little but he's an MP, it's not his job, nor is it appropriate, to randomly announce policy ideas. |
Because he is 40 and done nothing of note other then being his fathers son.
I hate attacking the guys personal life, but he hardly has a record of "getting it done". Aside from his degree in Literature and Education, he has two partly finished degrees, a dabble into an acting career, and a few years laying low as a high school teacher, his lack of commitment in his personal life makes me question his commitment to politics.
Politically, aside from Movember and the Brazeau fight he has just existed and contributed to the same degree as most 20 something NDP MP's from Quebec.
Barely won his seat in 2008 despite running in a riding that had been firmly Liberal from 1957 to 2006, and retained his seat in 2011 because of a strong Bloc candidate allowed for the holding off the NDP,
Being realistic, His most significant political accomplishment is a eulogy he made more then a decade ago.
While it may be unfair to call him an "empty suit" he really hasn't done anything in the four years he has been an MP to display any sort of leadership quality so if the suit is full he sure has done a great job hiding those qualities.
If his name was Justin Smith or Justin Ouellet based on his resume and political accomplishments we wouldn't even be having this conversation, and is that not the differentiation of everything the Tories are throwing at him with the "entitlement" card?
With that said;
I hope he wins the leadership, because Quebec will love him, the West will hate him, and he will absorb the same vote the CPC didn't need in 2011 gutting the NDP in Quebec and allowing the Tories to walk up the middle.
He is my first choice. |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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"Trudeau" is the only reason why Justin Trudeau is where he is obviously. My point is though that I don't think he's had the opportunity to show that he can be a leader. He's only been an MP so it's not like he can promote his own policy ideas. He hasn't had the opportunity to be a minister so we don't know how he'd perform in a role like that.
Jason Kenney is seen as someone who cold replace Stephen Harper, why? He has a philosophy degree or something and dropped out before completing his second degree. He then worked for Ralph Goodale and I think the Canadian Tax Pay Federation. The only reason he's seen as the heir appearant is because he's a strong minister. He's not a strong minister because he has a ton of education or experience outside politics.
I have my doubts about Trudeau's abilities to lead a party or be Prime Minister, but how many Liberals look like leaders? How many backbench Conservative MPs look like possible successors to Harper? I think he needs an opportunity to perform before being critisized. |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | "Trudeau" is the only reason why Justin Trudeau is where he is obviously. My point is though that I don't think he's had the opportunity to show that he can be a leader. He's only been an MP so it's not like he can promote his own policy ideas. He hasn't had the opportunity to be a minister so we don't know how he'd perform in a role like that.
Jason Kenney is seen as someone who cold replace Stephen Harper, why? He has a philosophy degree or something and dropped out before completing his second degree. He then worked for Ralph Goodale and I think the Canadian Tax Pay Federation. The only reason he's seen as the heir appearant is because he's a strong minister. He's not a strong minister because he has a ton of education or experience outside politics.
I have my doubts about Trudeau's abilities to lead a party or be Prime Minister, but how many Liberals look like leaders? How many backbench Conservative MPs look like possible successors to Harper? I think he needs an opportunity to perform before being critisized. |
The education factor isn't what I am trying to get across.
My point is more to the effect that he doesn't seem to have an interest in "sticking with it". Two degrees walked away from, an acting career, and a teaching career and politics all before his 40th birthday.
I am not entirely sure if I would compare Justin to Kenney;
Kenney has held his seat since 1997, and prior to being appointed to cabinet had nearly a decade of opposition experience under his belt and the fact that Kenney is 3 (?) years older the Trudeau goes toward my point of coasting when compared to other politicians seeking leadership.
While I generally agree with the "Justin is just an MP, what can he really do to push policy" point you are making to once again use Kenney as the example, he was a very effective and very local critic when he was in Shadow Cabinet,
Justin on the other hand is often in attendance (which is good) but rarely enters into debates (which is bad) if you look at the amount of time he has spoken in Parliament compared to other MP's its pretty brutal. He has the platform to be a strong opposition critic, but if you look at his total speaking time in the 41st Parliament he is hardly setting the world on fire.
He also has not tabled any legislation this session which the vast majority of his parties MP's have. and consider the lack of depth within the LPC due to their small caucus the fact that he was saddled with the Post Secondary Education, Youth and Amateur Sport Critics role leads me to believe that folks in the party don't exactly have a ton of faith in the guy to take on a big boy portfolio.
You can make as much or as little out of being an opposition MP as you want (look at Liz May for example) and he has opted for "as little".
Him getting an "opportunity" is interesting; but I would ask whats wrong with the opportunity he already has?
He had a respectable opportunity when he was critic for immigration, and he did nothing but tow the LPC line, CPC legislation on" human smuggling legislation = bad " and when pressed for any degree of alternative nadda. He was very underwhelming in the role so much so that at first opportunity they handed the role to Kevin Lamoureux in conjunction with the poor guy also having to be deputy house leader.
At what point can we question if the guy has the chops to lead? Because to this point he hasn't made the most of any opportunity given.
Let me cite an example from an MP I know you respect;
Mark Holland is three years younger then Trudeau and spent all but two years of his two of his seven year federal government career in opposition.
Has Trudeau who now has five years as an MP under his belt done even as much as Holland did as an opposition MP from 2006 - 2007?
No, not even close.
Holland did the most with every opportunity given and put himself into a position where had he been re-elected in 2011 would have been a young but respect potential candidate, Justin hasn't come anywhere close to that.
The thing with leadership is that the first step is to want to lead;
based on Trudeau's record he doesn't seem to have an interest in leading, and his election as leader will be based squarely on what his father did and what his fathers legacy was rather then his contributions to politics.
As I said above, Trudeau strikes me as a guy who is content on auto-pilot and consider the LPC will be facing perhaps the most important election in their history I don't think he has the chops.
After how many years of being a below average MP does it become reasonable for folks to fairly take a swipe at the guy for being pretty underwhelming at his job and questioning if that underwhelming performance is promotion worthy? |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Good points. |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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While she kind of drives me nuts if people want someone who puts forth policies and is accomplished Kirsty Duncan could be that person.
http://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/0.....-billions/ |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I think Duncan would be a nice Minister of Health in a reality where the Liberals were electable enough to form a government, but hearing her speak while she comes off as brilliant she comes off as a Professor.
The Liberals just opted for two of those types of leaders with minimal success.
While it pains me to say this;
Of the existing caucus the Liberals have the only guy I see being able to talk the talk as well as have the experience to back it up and be under 60 would be Denis Coderre. |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| cosmostein wrote: |
I think Duncan would be a nice Minister of Health in a reality where the Liberals were electable enough to form a government, but hearing her speak while she comes off as brilliant she comes off as a Professor.
The Liberals just opted for two of those types of leaders with minimal success.
While it pains me to say this;
Of the existing caucus the Liberals have the only guy I see being able to talk the talk as well as have the experience to back it up and be under 60 would be Denis Coderre. |
Coderre doesn't seem to be that well liked among Liberals but he could probably do very well in Quebec. I think he's a definite assets to the party to make gains in Quebec and Ignatieff was an idiot not to listen to him.
Him leaving federal politics to run for Mayor of Montreal is also interesting. While it would be a loss for the party I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about how the Liberals should start rebuilding at a Municipal level. The person wrote about how they thought Gerard Kennedy should run for Mayor of Toronto and that if he were elected it could help Liberal rebuilding in the city. It also mentioned how this could be done elsewhere and Montreal is a good example, Coderre's profile as Mayor could really help. |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: |
Coderre doesn't seem to be that well liked among Liberals but he could probably do very well in Quebec. I think he's a definite assets to the party to make gains in Quebec and Ignatieff was an idiot not to listen to him.
Him leaving federal politics to run for Mayor of Montreal is also interesting. While it would be a loss for the party I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about how the Liberals should start rebuilding at a Municipal level. The person wrote about how they thought Gerard Kennedy should run for Mayor of Toronto and that if he were elected it could help Liberal rebuilding in the city. It also mentioned how this could be done elsewhere and Montreal is a good example, Coderre's profile as Mayor could really help. |
While you may be hated on the front-end,
I think that you become liked when you start winning.
Based on the Nanos poll and a few other riding/regional polls we may very well be in the first stages of witnessing the NDP meltdown.
The NDP was making strides in BC and had some respectability in Urban Ontario as well as the massive lead in Quebec,
Now the NDP is trailing west of Quebec, and in third place in Ontario, Sask, and Alberta.
Coupled with a nearly double digit drop in BC.
The Liberals on the other-hand have surged into a firm second place in Quebec (mainly on a surge of support in Montreal) they have scrapped their way into second place in Ontario on a massive drove of support in the 416's, and have actually got back to double digits in BC mainly off Vancouver proper.
While I think the depth chart of Liberal leadership is terrible;
The BQ is tied with the CPC in Quebec, Daniel Paillé has proven ineffective at attracting the BQ voters that went NDP back to the BQ which creates a huge void the Liberals can fill.
Coderre as mayor of Montreal, and Kennedy as mayor of Toronto are interesting ideas but my comment would simply be;
Isn't that the support you already have anyway?
Laying a master plan to plunk Liberal mayors in place to wait years to allow for the Liberals to secure a base they already largely have?
Right now if I am the Liberal Braintrust and I am looking over the political landscape I see CPC bedrock support that is yet to drop under 30% (in any non-EKOS polling) that I need to chip into, or I look at the soft NDP support in Urban Ontario and Quebec in general to get into.
Its an easy choice.
Mulcair may be a Quebec leader; but he seems to be poison outside of the Province.
If you can get a popular figure from Quebec to lead the Liberals, who doesn't alienate Toronto and Vancouver the Liberals could find themselves back at over 100 seats in 2015.
If only Gérald Tremblay wasn't 69.
Its funny because I have been hammering the Liberals for holding off their leadership election till next year, but with the drop the NDP appear to be experiencing if the LPC can select a leader who will be popular in Quebec it may end up being perfectly timed afterall? |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| The Liberals have lost a significant amount in support in Toronto and Montreal though, having ,potentially, popular Liberal Mayors could help rebuilding. An interesting idea, don't know what the results would be. Look at how Ford Nation helped the CPC in the Toronto area. |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Progressive Tory wrote: | | The Liberals have lost a significant amount in support in Toronto and Montreal though, having ,potentially, popular Liberal Mayors could help rebuilding. An interesting idea, don't know what the results would be. Look at how Ford Nation helped the CPC in the Toronto area. |
They had recently;
But based on the most recent polling trends they seem to be getting their footing back based solely on those urban areas.
Being a mayor can also help and hinder depending in their popularity. |
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2013 Liberal Leadership Race - April 14, 2013 |
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